Dear Livvie,

Could you cite the source for this? Thanks.

I went to the EPA website, www.fueleconomy.gov, and did a comparison of four 2006 models (Civic GX, Insight, Civic Hybrid and Prius)

The model showing the lowest greenhouse gas emissions was the Insight (3.3 tons/year), followed by the Prius (3.4 t/y), followed by the Civic Hybrid (3.7 t/y); the Civic GX was last in this comparo (4.7 t/y).

I know you are not impressed with the current hybrid technologies; you've said so many times in this thread. But if you are going to cite facts that support your argument, I for one would appreciate knowing where those facts come from, so that I can see for myself.

Thanks.

 

Right you are... but the Civic GX was the first to be labeled SULEV back in 2001. I think that was what I was remembering.

http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/102

 

So in other words it was the cleanest until hybrid vehicles arrived.

 

So, because we can do better (and I agree, we can; where's my 100+ MPG flying car?!), we should brand hybrids as hype and just stick with older modes of transportation? Sorry, that sounds silly to me. For those who are willing and able to buy into the hybrid tech, they are making an improvement that they would not get in a non-hybrid unless they were willing to make other sacrifices -- smaller vehicle (higher fuel economy), less powerful vehicle (same), less driving by moving closer to work (less gas consumption) or carpooling/bussing/metro-riding, etc. There are many ways to skin this cat of reducing our individual fossil fuel consumption and pollution. No single way is a "killer app" yet, and I think that's what folks who say we can do better really mean. Calling an intermediate tech (as all tech is, as it will surely be replaced with newer, more efficient stuff in time) a fad or hype is silly... everything is a fad if you look at it with the right angle. Sony Walkmans, iPods, CDs, DVDs, VHS & Betamax tapes.. heck, cars were once probably seen as a fad. What do you need that loud, slow Model T for when your horse is fit and fine and ready to ride the moment you wake up and just needs to stop for a little water and hay occasionally?

Life's a fad. It, too, ends at some point.

 

I think I understand now where you are coming from. Yes, there have been some amazing advancements in the past, its sometimes hard to keep being amazed. But you really have to remember, this s**t is really hard to do.

NASA put a man on the moon in the 60s. Wow, Now they want to do it again, why is it going to take 15 yrs to do it? Because it's hard. Because everything done before was expensive, dirty, and dangerous. Boring right?

Desktop computers use to double in raw performance every couple of years, 33Mhz, 66Mhz, 100Mhz, 500Mhz, 1Ghz, 2Ghz, 3Ghz... Um, we've been here in the 3Ghz zone now for years, where's 4Ghz. Sorry buddy, It's too hard! Now they have to reinvent their systems as dual and quad core systems. Boring, I can only type in one forum at a time.

Nuclear plants were built all over the place providing clean energy. Wow. No more? Its really hard to make them safe, let's burn coal instead. Boring.

When technology is on the move it's impressive. LCD panels are one examples of tech that's really on the move right now. Bigger, faster, cheaper. Cool!!! But sooner or later everything hits a wall, and has to squeeze out in a different direction that is often really difficult (the reason it wasn't done that way from the start). LCD panels were once that squeeze, how can we make computers portable without using a mini 5" CRT display in a suitcase. That took a long time and the first 10 years of LCDs were very unimpressive.

Gasonline engines have hit that wall. Some older cars got pretty good FE. They were dirty, dangerous little tin cans that rusted out if you ate salted french fries in the same parking lot. But they represented something new and different back then. If Toyota released a similiar spec'd car today they'd be sued back to 1945 Tokyo. The technology is squeezing out in different areas to achieve power, efficiency, and cleanliless and Yes! it is difficult.

I remain amazed that NASA will try the moon again. I remain amazed at multi-threaded software. Although somewhat nervously (I live right between 2 nuke plants), I like the idea of not breathing smog so I can make my toast. And yes, I remain amazed at my TCH for how such a complex combination of technologies has been put together that delivers power, comfort, style, cleanliless, and efficiency in an apparently reliable package. At least today, tomorrow will be different. I too will be waiting to be impressed, but I give credit where it's due...

 

Well cleanest is not the right word... NG vs Gas, NG is "cleaner" but as for the greenhouse gases, the hybrid is better.

 

Well that's the exteme way of looking at it, but what I am going to do is demand more and if I don't get it I won't be buying another hybrid. I still think that if we are satisfied with the current level of FE on the hybrids that are out there, there will be no incentives for the manufactures to do better. The 2nd genration hybrids that are out there now, should have done more then just beat their 1st generation counterparts.

Here is what will happen in about a year's time. I will be in the market for a larger car in about 1 year. We are looking at the Honda CRV because it meets our needs and does pretty good compared to other vechicles in its class. I can tell you that I didn't even glance at any hybrid suvs out there because of A) the cost.... and B) the FE will probably beat any Hybrid SUV out there for the money. So my voice will be my wallet ultimately.

 

The technology exist now to do it. We all think that the only way to improve MPG is by offering a more techno advanced engine, well that's where we are wrong. One simple way to do this is to reduce the weight of the car with technology that exist today. Sure it may cost a lot at first but with mass production we can absorb the extra cost, NASA came out with a ton of technologies that we can piggy back off of, especially lightweight materials. An aluminum car is not unheard of, Audi and Honda have both created them. I'm sure there are other things that can be used to reduce the weight of the car.

 

Jenny Craig would agree with you. The "world's best hypermiler" does amazing things to his Insight to boost his lifetime average to nearly 100 MPG. He removed his passenger seat (36 lbs.), replaced his rear-view mirrors with cameras to reduce drag, and so on. I would also suggest shaving the soles of his shoes, waiting two hours after eating a meal to drive... hmmm, what else can we think of... ?

 

Ex-lax?