newbie here, any performance mods...
#61
05-29-2006, 03:31 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by Tulip
This is an interesting and lively debate which has been stirred up, much like disturbing a hornets nest! One question. Are there any ladies taking this modification route, or is it an exclusively male thing? (The old hunter-gatherer at work). Certainly from personal observation on the road it would seem to be the latter. Do the Police have any statistics I wonder?
That said, I do take meticulous care of my vehicles; I just don't do most of the maintenance myself; I don't have the tools or time. I did my own installation of the cabin air filter (Bosch; posted about it in another thread here several weeks ago.) I wash and wax my own vehicles regularly. I keep the interiors clean. I monitor my tire pressures and after reading threads here, I increased the tire pressure to 40psi (Ford recommends 35psi on the FEH, max. sidewall for the Continental EcoPlus LRR tires is 44psi.)
My Dad does all his own maintenance -- tire rotation, oil changes, filter changes, even fixed a broken power window mechanism in my Mom's car. He only takes a car in for servicing if it's an issue he can't diagnose or address.
My Mom is a bit eccentric and had an auto shop install a glass-pack/CAT back (whichever of the two is cheaper and more about noise than performance) on her '97 Chevy Camaro so it sounds "meaner". Funnier still, she runs with handicapped plates because she is partially disabled due to 34 years of rheumatoid arthritis.
Last edited by GeekGal; 05-29-2006 at 03:34 PM.
#62
05-29-2006, 05:14 PM
Glass pack moma!!
Geekgal-your mother had a catback installed(with a handicapped plate?).Pretty funny! It is probably a cat back in which everything behind the catalytic converter is replaced with aftermarket items that are supposed to flow better or be better tuned(it is the muffler and tailpipe, and maybe a premuffler resonator). No one ever says glass packs anymore.It is a term from the 50's,60's, 70's.Some aftermarket mufflers still have fiberglass in them.Thanks,Charlie
#63
05-29-2006, 05:33 PM
Re: Glass pack moma!!
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
Geekgal-your mother had a catback installed(with a handicapped plate?).Pretty funny! It is probably a cat back in which everything behind the catalytic converter is replaced with aftermarket items that are supposed to flow better or be better tuned(it is the muffler and tailpipe, and maybe a premuffler resonator). No one ever says glass packs anymore.It is a term from the 50's,60's, 70's.Some aftermarket mufflers still have fiberglass in them.Thanks,Charlie
Most of the local police know her car now and just wave or nod.She's a fiesty one. She just got out of 8 days in the hospital. I had to drive her Camaro home 9 days ago and I felt like such a poseur... I'm just not a Camaro w/catback kinda gal! (My car before the '06 FEH was/is a 14-year-old Toyota Corolla DX we still have and hubby uses for commuting instead of his '01 F-150 Supercrew 4x4.)
#64
05-29-2006, 07:02 PM
Re: Why did the FE improve?.
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
Tyler-why did the FE improve?
The dirty filter analogy is pretty good. I have an answer . A filter can get so dirty that the intake resistance will be so much that you can't get adequate flow even with the Throttle plate completely open.When this happens you will go too rich.
Of course, there are other problems with having a dirty filter. If you have to open the Throttle plate very wide, but are flowing a small amount of air you will have very low velocity just downstream of the TP. If mixing the fuel and air depends on having a high vel just downstream of the TP then it will hinder the mixing and you won't get as good a burn.Now, this depends on where the fuel is sprayed into the air flow.The closer you get to the actual port, then the flow vel just downstream of the becomes less important. This is the only way that a low resistance filter could improve part throttle FE; if a particular motorFI combo was extremely sensitive to vel of flow at the TP, then you might be able to notice a very,very slight improvement in FE with a lower resistance airfilter that would allow smaller TP openings.
Auto engineers aren't stupid. They don't leave 10-15% FE that could be so easily obtained on the table.They might leave some FE on the table because of noise regs(mainly exhausts-but really tiny amounts), or very high costs(carbon fiber for wt loss is very expensive).A simple filter change CAI- it just won't be missed.Thanks.Charlie
PS-K&N had some problems recently with the filter oil "killing" the air flow sensors.
The dirty filter analogy is pretty good. I have an answer . A filter can get so dirty that the intake resistance will be so much that you can't get adequate flow even with the Throttle plate completely open.When this happens you will go too rich.
Of course, there are other problems with having a dirty filter. If you have to open the Throttle plate very wide, but are flowing a small amount of air you will have very low velocity just downstream of the TP. If mixing the fuel and air depends on having a high vel just downstream of the TP then it will hinder the mixing and you won't get as good a burn.Now, this depends on where the fuel is sprayed into the air flow.The closer you get to the actual port, then the flow vel just downstream of the becomes less important. This is the only way that a low resistance filter could improve part throttle FE; if a particular motorFI combo was extremely sensitive to vel of flow at the TP, then you might be able to notice a very,very slight improvement in FE with a lower resistance airfilter that would allow smaller TP openings.
Auto engineers aren't stupid. They don't leave 10-15% FE that could be so easily obtained on the table.They might leave some FE on the table because of noise regs(mainly exhausts-but really tiny amounts), or very high costs(carbon fiber for wt loss is very expensive).A simple filter change CAI- it just won't be missed.Thanks.Charlie
PS-K&N had some problems recently with the filter oil "killing" the air flow sensors.
SHOW ME THE DATA OR SHUT UP!!!
Your posts are a broken record at this point. You can keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and I still will not take a thing you say with a grain of validity unless you bring the data.
You must love the sound of your own fingers hitting the keyboard.
#65
05-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by FRAM
More airflow for improved performance.
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Cotton is generally regarded as the best material for air filters because of its excellent filtration and high airflow. This is because the "holes" in cotton are much looser than paper, giving high airflow, but use concepts such as interception, impaction, and diffusion, which allow the fibers to filter particles much smaller than the actual "holes." High performance air filters use oiled layers of cotton gauze. Dust particles held suspended in the cotton gauze actually "becomes" part of the filter medium to all the more increase filtration without obstructing airflow to the engine, thereby outlasting paper filters in service life and performance. Although cotton filters are pricey to begin with, they can be cleaned and re-oiled at a long service interval of 50,000 miles, by which time several disposable paper filters will have already been replaced per vehicle.
Automotive air filters
Two main types of air filters are used in automobiles: the combustion air filter, and the cabin air filter. The combustion air filter prevents particulate matter from entering the engine's combustion chambers. This filter is commonly changed at oil-change time, but may be changed at longer or shorter intervals, depending on operating conditions of the vehicle.
Most modern, fuel-injected vehicles use a flat panel filter. This filter is usually placed inside a plastic box connected to the throttle body with a large hose. Occasionally these are replaced with a conical filter and cold air intake which, in most cases, includes a heat shield to protect the intake air from underhood temperatures, along with tubing to improve airflow into the throttle body. In many cases an improved air-intake system can produce an increase in power and efficiency.
Older vehicles that use carburetors or throttle body fuel injection typically use a cylindrical air filter, usually a few inches high and approximately a foot in diameter (the most common version is 14 inches in diameter and 3 inches tall). This is positioned above the carburetor or throttle body and secured with a metal lid. Replacing this lid with a chrome-plated version is a common and simple modification among car enthusiasts.
The cabin air filter is typically a pleated-paper filter that is placed in the "outside-air" intake for the vehicle's passenger compartment. Some of these filters are rectangular and similar in shape to the combustion air filter. Others, such as in the Ford Taurus, are roughly triangular in shape, so as to fit in the narrow curving space of the outside-air intake. Cabin air filter replacement has recently become an opportunity for increased billings and profits at professional oil-change locations. Improper removal and reinstallation of this filter can lead to water leaks (by misalignment of the water diverter or seals) and in rare instances, a cracked windshield. This filter is often overlooked and clogged or dirty cabin air filters can significantly reduce airflow from the cabin vents, as well as introduce allergens into the cabin air stream. Periodic, proper replacement will increase cooling and heating efficiency. A filter should be replaced annually to ensure optimal efficiency. Drivers can change their own filters or have the service done for them at an automotive service center.
Automotive air filters
Two main types of air filters are used in automobiles: the combustion air filter, and the cabin air filter. The combustion air filter prevents particulate matter from entering the engine's combustion chambers. This filter is commonly changed at oil-change time, but may be changed at longer or shorter intervals, depending on operating conditions of the vehicle.
Most modern, fuel-injected vehicles use a flat panel filter. This filter is usually placed inside a plastic box connected to the throttle body with a large hose. Occasionally these are replaced with a conical filter and cold air intake which, in most cases, includes a heat shield to protect the intake air from underhood temperatures, along with tubing to improve airflow into the throttle body. In many cases an improved air-intake system can produce an increase in power and efficiency.
Older vehicles that use carburetors or throttle body fuel injection typically use a cylindrical air filter, usually a few inches high and approximately a foot in diameter (the most common version is 14 inches in diameter and 3 inches tall). This is positioned above the carburetor or throttle body and secured with a metal lid. Replacing this lid with a chrome-plated version is a common and simple modification among car enthusiasts.
The cabin air filter is typically a pleated-paper filter that is placed in the "outside-air" intake for the vehicle's passenger compartment. Some of these filters are rectangular and similar in shape to the combustion air filter. Others, such as in the Ford Taurus, are roughly triangular in shape, so as to fit in the narrow curving space of the outside-air intake. Cabin air filter replacement has recently become an opportunity for increased billings and profits at professional oil-change locations. Improper removal and reinstallation of this filter can lead to water leaks (by misalignment of the water diverter or seals) and in rare instances, a cracked windshield. This filter is often overlooked and clogged or dirty cabin air filters can significantly reduce airflow from the cabin vents, as well as introduce allergens into the cabin air stream. Periodic, proper replacement will increase cooling and heating efficiency. A filter should be replaced annually to ensure optimal efficiency. Drivers can change their own filters or have the service done for them at an automotive service center.
Need more?
#66
05-29-2006, 07:45 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by mexiken
You're missing the point entirely. Like someone else said, people come from all walks of life to buy a hybrid, why put them down ????
Originally Posted by mexiken
Just because you have nothing intelligent to add doesn't mean you should poke fun at the guy....
Everyone here is entitled to express their opinion. As a matter of fact, you can't prevent anyone from doing so. Even if you don't respect the opinion, even if you think it's stupid, you have no choice but to respect the person's right to express it.
This thread is the most boring, cheap shot filled, thread I've seen here in six months. Fortunately it's an exception.
#67
05-29-2006, 08:16 PM
K&N's own words-read it and weep
OK, I'll give you "some documentation."
http://knfilters.com/kits.htm
This is their page on their CAIs and filters.
They say plenty about horsepower increases.
They say absolutely nothing about mpg or FE.
Guess why they don't mention improved mpg?
Because CAIs don't improve mpg!! There is no reason they would.
If they did, you can bet K&N would say they did.
http://knfilters.com/kits.htm
This is their page on their CAIs and filters.
They say plenty about horsepower increases.
They say absolutely nothing about mpg or FE.
Guess why they don't mention improved mpg?
Because CAIs don't improve mpg!! There is no reason they would.
If they did, you can bet K&N would say they did.
#68
05-29-2006, 08:26 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Why would they need to say it?
http://knfilters.com/ads/linegas.aspx
They already say the K&N filter alone is good for as much as a 10% increase in economy. If the intake comes with the K&N filter, wouldn't it be assumed that you get the benefit of the filkter or are you saying that the intake kit makes that 10% increase go away?
Keep digging. You have not convinced me.
It's ok to be wrong. I am wrong all the time. But to date, you are the ONLY human being I have EVER met that thinks this way about air filters. It would seem to me that you decided you didn't like something and will take your opinion on it to your grave.
http://knfilters.com/ads/linegas.aspx
They already say the K&N filter alone is good for as much as a 10% increase in economy. If the intake comes with the K&N filter, wouldn't it be assumed that you get the benefit of the filkter or are you saying that the intake kit makes that 10% increase go away?
Keep digging. You have not convinced me.
It's ok to be wrong. I am wrong all the time. But to date, you are the ONLY human being I have EVER met that thinks this way about air filters. It would seem to me that you decided you didn't like something and will take your opinion on it to your grave.
#69
05-29-2006, 08:44 PM
Re: newbie here, any performance mods...
Originally Posted by tylers65
They already say the K&N filter alone is good for as much as a 10% increase in economy.
If you read the page you linked to, it spoke of a 10% increase in FE over a DIRTY air filter. This is a government note, and has NOTHING to do with any particular brand of air filter - just a clean one vs. a clogged, dirty one. This is common knowledge. It sheds NO LIGHT on the discussion at hand as to whether the K&N air filter gives any FE increase. Misleading, I'd say.
Your earlier post, linking to the K&N testimonials page was much better. While the testimonials were obviously chosen to put the K&N air filter in a most flattering light (this is standard practice on company web-sites, too), they at least give the impression that many folks believe in their merits for both oomph and FE.
I don't think anyone is convinced one way or another yet.
#70
05-29-2006, 10:12 PM
Re: Sixxone- HP ACCELERATION SURE- FE improve-no
Originally Posted by phoebeisis
SixxOne, yeah,a good CAI can improve hp,acceleration-same for good exhaust mods. I don't have any problem with that claim.
IMPROVING FE 15% WITH JUST A CAI??
Did your mpg improve 15% with your CAI?
CAI's won't improve part throttle fuel economy in a modern car with a throttle plate and FI. They can't!!
Any decrease in resistance you get from the CAI in your CAI equipped car will be matched by my (or the drive by wire computer)opening the throttle plate a little more in my no CAI car.The resistance will be the same-we will have the same pumping loss-same amount of Fuel and air in the cyl at the same RPM-we will make the same power and have the same FE.
NOTICE I AM TALKING ABOUT PART THROTTLE FUEL ECONOMY-full throttle is a different situation and it is why the CAI can make more power, and better FE.
Full throttle use is very uncommon for most folks who are concerned with FE.
I think pumping up the electric motor and more battery power are the way to go. Leaning on the the little ICE won't really get you much hp(except with N20) and it can hurt FE. A pumped up electric motor with a plug in battery wouldn't hurt FE and it could give good performance(if you could figure out how to stuff a Prius sized electric motor in it, or maybe a HH motor??Luck,Charlie
IMPROVING FE 15% WITH JUST A CAI??
Did your mpg improve 15% with your CAI?
CAI's won't improve part throttle fuel economy in a modern car with a throttle plate and FI. They can't!!
Any decrease in resistance you get from the CAI in your CAI equipped car will be matched by my (or the drive by wire computer)opening the throttle plate a little more in my no CAI car.The resistance will be the same-we will have the same pumping loss-same amount of Fuel and air in the cyl at the same RPM-we will make the same power and have the same FE.
NOTICE I AM TALKING ABOUT PART THROTTLE FUEL ECONOMY-full throttle is a different situation and it is why the CAI can make more power, and better FE.
Full throttle use is very uncommon for most folks who are concerned with FE.
I think pumping up the electric motor and more battery power are the way to go. Leaning on the the little ICE won't really get you much hp(except with N20) and it can hurt FE. A pumped up electric motor with a plug in battery wouldn't hurt FE and it could give good performance(if you could figure out how to stuff a Prius sized electric motor in it, or maybe a HH motor??Luck,Charlie
The Bottom Line: The car has more HP and torque. And gas magically stayed in my gas tank longer. I don't know why, but I got a better MPG. You can choose to believe othersie, but it is the turth.
Like I said before, the more air flowing in and out (intake/ exhaust) the better performance you get. If it takes me less time to get up to 65mph at lower RPMs than I getting a better MPG.
BTW, It was a warm air intake, not a cold air.
Last edited by SixxOne; 05-29-2006 at 10:22 PM.
