Noel, thanks for your input and it's alway nice to get a true opinion of how someone views life. As far as your view of me, you may be right, but I think the things I do are safe for me. They maynot be safe for people without the ability to understand and operate the vehicle as I do. For those that can, good luck.

The only thing that has brought my vehicle to the shop in 35,000 miles is the PCM (computer) that had a glitch that required reprogramming. It is possible that I screwed the thing up with my ways of operating the system, but my son who will graduate from MIT this year with a degree in computer science and electrical engineering doesn't think so.

My background in life safety and fire protection makes me explore the harmful possibilities of actions people take. The fact that I can get from point A to point B using half the fuel as others, makes other people breath cleaner air is a good feeling to me. Until the buses, trains and so forth get with the "save our planet", I'm not going to waste my energy or the planets.

Today, I got 48.5mpg out of my FEH and didn't hurt anyone but big oil. There wasn't a moment I felt unsafe to me or the drivers around me. I used every drop of fuel the best way I know how, and I got to where I needed and back at a very fast pace I might add.

People like my wife and kids are having a hard time with Asthma. Some people can't stand on the road with all this polution waiting for a bus. Sure, I now know I can turn off the engine at any speed and restart when I need power anytime, but does that make me unsafe? The brakes work great and the steering is perfect, so what is the problem? It's not acceleration as many without a clue would say.

So, my vehicle is in good shape and I have not had a crash and hurt others or myself, but I'm getting at least 45mpg on average everyday. Take or leave what I do, but big oil doen't control me like most of you!

GaryG

 

Now see Gary doesn't just drive his car, he plays his FEH like a violin, extracting out all potential comfortable, safe, happy, miles out of every drop of gazoline. Gary you can rest peacefully with the notion that if everyone in America were like you, we'd probably not be in Iraq right now!

Cheers

 

its no worse than my old ford for safty, no power steering, no power brakes, and no air bags, and no shoulder belts, at least gary has brakes airbags and belts, so as far as no power assist steering i see no problem with that, its probably easier to steer than my old ford.

 

If someone doesn't think differently, change is unlikely. Our "experienced posters" need to be thanked for "exploring on the other side of the fence" and reporting on their findings that frequently benefit all of us. It is unlikely that any of the auto companies would have done the same.

 

Well, power steering does allow for quicker maneuvers to avoid obstacles (like children running out between parked cars), shoulder straps lower head and hip injuries and airbags, when used properly, save all kinds of injuries. This is progress.

Defeating some of these may improve fuel efficiency, but will impact safety. Maybe statistically, these techniques will save more fuel and more lives from polution than will be killed by the accidents, but I'd hate to be the one behind the wheel when I hit someone because I got disoriented trying to pat my head while rubbing my belly to save fuel when I should have been watching the road.

Everytime I ride my bike to work or double-up on a trip saves gas even it it does not show up on a scanguage. Maybe we should invent a life scanguage so we can see how all our decisions impact on fuel use and the environment so we can focus our energy on where we can get the best returns.

I've brought on some wrath making this argument, but I think both sides need to be represented in this discussion.

Cheers,

rcomeau

 

The only wrath you brought to this board is for me to stop posting due to your complaints to the moderator. Most of us are interested in saving gas and pollution. The "other side" (I guess your side) wants to complain about new ideas to save fuel because you don't offer any.

I'm responsible for giving this board a lot of fuel saving ideas. Lets look at just some of these so called non-safety techniques that I've brought here:

1. The fake shift (FS) in "L" to get a super fast charge to prolong EV driving. Someone brought up lately that they don't notice this super charge in their '08. Try completely running the HV battery down in EV till you know your restart is from a low battery SoC. If you can do this at 25-30mph, begin a FS in "L" right away. If the engine begins to go EV again during this power surge, the '08 has the same regen as the other models. I try to get a few seconds of regen charge before going EV, and accelerate to do a second FS at my target speed (35-40mph). I always have enough charge to go EV during the second FS. If the '08 does not go EV during the second FS about ten seconds later, Ford must have toned down regen in "L".

2. With the FS power surge to the battery from regen, I brought the idea to shift to neutral for the longest coast. I shift as soon as I see the bounce of the tach, which indicates the FEH is going EV during a FS. Deadbanding is a joke no matter what some say, I've done it.

3. Accelerate when possible at 1800rpm's, this was my recommendation to P&G (pulse and glide or the same as accelerate and coast) the FEH/MMH.

4. Many posters before me have discussed drafting, so that is not what I brought to the table first. I've found there is a reasonable safe distance to draft and improve mileage though.

5. Also, I was the first person who contacted Ron Delong at Scangauge and found they had just programmed the SG to work with Hybrids and the FEH. Not that big a deal, but for FEH owners here, this put us on the cutting edge of hypermiling in a SUV. Many FEH/MMH owners took my recommendation and have one now.

6. Look down at my MTE picture. People have PM'ed me and said that picture inspired them to purchase a FEH/MMH. Now I see the AWD breaking into the 600 MTE. Way to go!

7. It appears my recommendation of driving with the climate control in the off position lead to many complaining to the moderator about my post to TeeSter. Simply saying he was missing something after I posted this information many times, the "Other Side" got all fired up. I had quoted the Service Manual with the page and section for this information, but the other side still question my post. Finally, when I pointed out that the main engine coolant pump was mechanical, and the heater pump runs in EV if the climate control is in any position but off, people understood the system much better. Why run the heater pump and burn energy if you don't need to.

Now, after all I shared with this group, this is the thanks I get from the "other side". The fact is, rcomeau has not tried Key-Off FAS, he just plays the fear card for the "other side". I've stated many times that the steering was normal and not a problem during a Key-Off FAS. rcomeau continues to play the fear card with something he knows nothing about. I ask this group, do you want posters to help you learn how to increase your mileage, or posters who want put the fear of God in you for trying something to save gas and the environment.

Just this morning, I started my FEH and within one mile, my SG current average was reading 94mpg. This was with no battery use with EV. Some of you would think this can't be safe, and possibly a down right lie. The truth is, I was leaving downtown WPB where there is a stoplight at almost every block. My battery was at a state of charge (SoC) that if I started the engine, it would be charging with the small generator just to bring a slight bit of green SoC up for quite a while. A few FS solved the low battery problem. When I got home, my SG current trip was at 48.5mpg.

BTW rcomeau, the reason the FEH/MMH steers so good during my Key-Off FAS is because the electric power assist remains on if you return the key back to the run position right away. Now, can you tell this group of any other safety features during Key-Off FAS that won't work the same as they do in EV? I can restart the engine and be accelerating in "D" within a second, just as the FEH/MMH would do going from EV to ICE-On.

I'm the first to try Key-Off FAS that has posted on this and all the other boards I monitor. Just like the list above, this was new ground breaking territory for FEH/MMH owners. I've discovered a way around the problems with bad mileage during your cold winters if you care to try it. Also, for you people that think I must drive slow to get the mileage I do, your wrong. I drive the speed limit and a little higher most of the time.


Anyone can choose to use the techniques I've experienced or not, but claiming things like the power steering will cause you to hit some poor child is ridiculous. Why does there have to be what rcomeau refers to as the "other side"?

GaryG

 

GaryG: Glad you are back and hope you will stay. I enjoy your posts and find them informative.

 

Thanks Don

It is a fact that I take chances learning what works and what doesn't work. I was afraid the disagreements I have with some posters here were holding people back from making statement like you just made. Some of the people complaining were even asking questions in PM's to me while staying on the "other side" with their post. I know it was getting to the point that people didn't want to ask questions of my techniques for fear of taking sides.

My post about the neutral disconnect made GPSman1 ban me from posting on the Yahoo site because he disagreed. The fact is, I'd found documentation that there is two other disconnects within the eCVT that work as physical disconnect from the planetary gear set. First, the brake on the small generator is a combination clutch assembly that can disengage it which I recently found out about. Second, the one-way clutch can disengage the engine that had not been revealed in the manuals. The Toyota eCVT and the Ford eCVT have many design differences, and now I think Ford out did Toyota in the design flexibility.

The subject of this thread is about a kill switch. The FEH/MMH already has the best kill switch possible. I've done Key-Off FAS at every speed I travel now for months, and no vehicle or other Hybrid I know of will allow you to keep your brakes, gauges, power steering and all the safety equipment it has in EV. No problems restarting above 40mph plus with my vehicle, so the disconnect must be there. Wayne Gerdes told me that the MG1 motor would be toast in the Toyota eCVT if they tried this. This now makes the FEH/MMH a 100mpg plus SUV. If Wayne Gerdes gets someone to let him drive the '08 at the next Hybridfest MPG challenge, we all will see it happen. I'm not going to drive my FEH there to prove it, but Wayne should exceed 120mpg using Key-Off FAS and neutral coasting with this new knowledge. Of course this is driving at a turtle's pace, but that's how you drive in a MPG challenge. Go FEH/MMH!

GaryG

 

Hello, and welcome to GH.

In answer to your question, the FEH does very well driving it normally, you'll get some good MPGs, but with some minor driving changes, you can really get some great MPG out of it, but that decision is up to you.

An EV button has been part of the hybrid concept since the first hybrid was created, but US safety laws prevented them from being used on US vehicles. The idea is that if the engine is on, and you have no use for it, you can press a button to instantly transfer to Electric Vehicle operations. Now, at low speeds, FEH models can double tap, or use L to achieve the same effect, or wait a bit for the PCM to figure it out on it's own and turn off the engine. However, if you don't need it, ICE on means gas burning, and if you don't need it, why burn it?

The newest Toyota Highlander Hybrid has such a button, though it's not out yet, we're not sure if that will actually be released as such, or if legislation or a loophole has been found around it that Toyota is exploiting.

Additionally, should you aftermarket upgrade to a PHEV, that is adding in another electric power sources to plug in your vehicle, expanding it's electric range considerably, an EV button would help you manage that range rather easily.

GaryG, rcomeau, if you two want to disagree and argue, do it via PMs and not here in this thread (Unless of course it's about said topic). This thread stays on topic.

 

I have to thank Gary G. for his latest post. He and other "experienced" Escape Hybrid users/posters have provided a ton of information that can not be obtained from the salespersons at the dealerships. I would hope Ford Motor Company is listening to these individuals and utilize their research in the near future.

Why can't our experienced posters be sponsored by FMC and/or a dealership(s) in conducting bi-monthly "ask the experts" on-line forums?