You're having a problem reading what you post. I copied your post and pasted it in this thread where you claimed you changed your ATF with Mercon. Clearly, your post 2 years ago stated you changed the ATF to Mobil 1. You can't have it both ways and one of you is incorrect.

Only after you posted you don't care if E15 (not E10) is cheaper, that is what you use. Here again, you have changed what I stated was E15 now as E10. The newer manuals states E10 can be used, I've used E10 since mandated here in Florida because I have no other choice. Ford just honored my warranty and this thread is about that. Why are you changing your words and my words when clearly it is in writing here.

I've also stated that the term sealed eCVT was a term some dealers use by explaining the FEH does not need a ATF change. Ford does use the term sealed HV battery, but most people know it is vented with outside air.

You only keep digging yourself deeper every time you post on these subjects. The people here know how to read and I'm just trying to avoid them damaging their vehicles by mistakes others make. I even take it one step further by admitting when I make a mistake so others can avoid that also. An example, the hypermiling trchnique know as FAS most likely caused my relays to go bad. I've posted that I don't use FAS and my mileage log never has the technique of FAS checked: http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?pa...9&viewcar=2612 Slide my mileage page to the left and note I never check "A" as my techniques which is FAS. In my '09 owner manual, Ford now stated turning off the key is not permitted while moving. You will also see in that manual not to use anything higher than E10 which was my warning to this site about E15.

GaryG

 

Earth to garyg...
Come in... over...
Please report what planet you're on...

 

Hi,

I don't want to add to the flames here, but...

Is not one of the ways to prematurely kill an exhaust system is to do lots of short trips? All that cooling off causes condensation in the exhaust. The FEH starts the engine to keep the CAT warm to prevent this. Gary, you did a lot of FAS with that truck correct? You intentionally shut the engine off to force a coast to increase fuel economy, which overrides the computer's attempts to keep the CAT warm. Is it at all possible that this had an adverse effect on the exhaust?

Just checking. No one mentioned this yet but I thought it was worth considering.

 

You are a lot more on the ball than some around here, but no, I only tried FAS for a short period in 2007.

When you do a FAS during the Warm-Up Strategy, the FEH computer resumes the warm-up strategy where it left off. In other words, the timing remains retarted and the electric motors continue to provide the torque until Light-Off of the converter begins. When Light-Off begins, the FEH can go EV when the coolant temperature is met. As you know, FAS only begins after acceleration with the engine running during the pulse. The short glide distance and constant acceleration in P&G maintain converter and coolant temperature much better in my warm climate than those hypermilers living in colder climates in the north.

I've said from the start of finding my converter was bad, that water mixed in my gas because of E10, caused early failure of my converter. It was a chemical reaction of water and alcohol that coated the catalyst and caused it to fail IMO. Remember, no one that does FAS constantly for years has reported early CAT failure, even in the colder weather. Even Ford is developing engine Start/Stop capability to kill the engine as soon as you let off the gas and start the engine when you press the accelerator. Our hybrids are basically doing that now, and my '09 FEH does it even more with complete fuel-cut above 40mph and EV under 40mph.

Also, I've already said that since my '09 FEH has never had a chance to let larger quantities of water built up in its tank like my '05 FEH, E10 should not be a problem.

Off Topic - Here are some new pictures I took today of the 2012 Focus SEL that just replaced my '05 FEH:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showg.../500/ppuser/36

GaryG

 

rcomeau: You may be on to something there. The one failure I described was precisely when my son was using the Suburban at college with many short trips. These trips were less than a mile or so and in very cold winters.

Hadn't connected the dots, appreciate it.

With regard to the oil thing interjected above: if you can read the label on the bottle and it says it meets Mercon specs... it won't void your warranty.

rcomeau sorry for the words above, but the technical info has been available and posted for a really, really long time. There's nothing new here and there is no technical basis for some assertions made. This kind of stuff has gone on for so long...

The FORD TSB posted earlier specifies that spec for ATF for the FEH Transaxle. So don't be fooled by other assertions, no matter how strongly put.

...And don't confuse the "Aisin AW eCVT" with the chain type CVT, which does require a specific and different type ATF. Should you use the chain drive CVT kind of ATF in your FEH you'll void your warranty for sure.

Note that the FEH owners manual specifically excludes the Mercon CVT (Blue) that's used in the chain drive CVTs. If anyone tries to talk you into using that (Blue) Mercon stuff: DON'T.

 

Hmmm... A post like this... versus Gary's reputation of proven MPG figures, his numerous posts to help people try to achieve his numbers AND the assessment of the Ford technician ...

I'll believe the "Gary relaying what the Ford rep said" story.

Gary is innocent until proven guilty in my book, not the other way around.

Questioning ones posts is one thing, but some of you seem to be attacking Gary. My $.02.

Gary, thank you for always sharing your experiences.

 

There's a reason I tend to cite technical documentation such as Ford Technical Service Bulletins. He's running on reputation.

The trouble is he's putting out wrong information... And spreads it far & wide on other hybrid websites.

In the case of the ATF issue, he's not only wrong, he's had sufficient information, such as a Ford TSB on lubricants provided, to know the correct answer. ...And this TSB was provided some 4 years ago. If he wants to assert a preference, go for it. But when he comes out and states that using Mobil One ATF in the FEH transaxle voids a warranty, he's wrong and has had plenty of information provided to know it.

In the case of his assertion of the transaxle being a sealed unit (which he has posted on other hybrid websites) he's again wrong. It is no more "sealed" than any other transmission. He has used the fact of no call out for change of transmission fluid in the Ford maintenance schedule to infer that it is a "sealed unit." Again just wrong.

My basis for asserting error is that Ford's technical documentation has a change procedure and Ford tells you what fluid to use. In my experience that is not the treatment a "sealed unit" receives in technical documentation. At no point does Ford refer to it as "sealed." Were it so they wouldn't be reluctant to label it as such given the strictures of warranty claims.

He is asserting his own private inference as fact. There's no place for that here. He should label it as his opinion, only.

Finally his assertion of fault with E-10 plugging a catalytic convertor just doesn't match reality. Ethanol has been blended into gasoline for so long that a systemic problem would have been identified and published a decade or so ago. When someone asserts opinion as fact that cuts off discussion. There's no place for that here either.

So, after many attempts to gently get him to make the transition from using "fact" to using "opinion," and ignoring his taunts along the way, I said that. Read the discussion on E-10 above. There's a thread of an idea about short runs and too little warmup time there that merits exploration. He's cutting that off.

Believe who you want... But keep in mind that all heresy will begin with a grain of truth and usually will depend on the spreaders "reputation" to pull in the faithful.

 

Combustion of ethyl alcohol /ethanol:
C2H6O + 3 O2 ------------> 2 CO2 + 3 H2O

Combustion of the carbon-hydrogen gasoline (the full chemical structure of gasoline for each corporation remains a highly guarded secret)
2C8H18 + 25O2 ~> 16CO2 + 18H2O

We can see from this formula more water is produced from gasoline combustion than ethanol. Yet the expert is blaming ethanol and excess water for the cat failure. His rants are baseless and laughable.

 

Neither one of you Bill's get it!

You both want to use facts that have nothing to do with the subject of the Ford eCVT ATF or water in my tank.

Billy's changed the subject of water in my gas tank that mixes with E10 because of the alcohol in it, to the difference of combustion between gas and ethanol. Two completely different subject!

Bill W. provides a document that talks about the difference in Mercon between the CVT (not eCVT) and the gas Escape ATF. He wants to mislead this group because he can't own up to his mistake of changing his original Mercon to Mobil 1 ATF in his FEH he posted and I copied and pasted in this thread.

The Mercon Ford puts in their '05 - '08 FEH cannot be changed to Mobil 1. Mobil 1 may state their ATF meets the Mercon specs, but that's maybe okay in the standard Ford automatic transmission, but not for the FEH eCVT. Look, I wanted to change my '05 FEH Mercon ATF to the newly Ford formulated ATF in my '09 FEH because:

" High-Efficiency Transaxle. The maximum RPM of the new transaxle’s permanent-magnet synchronous motor-generators has been increased, and a new low-drag transaxle fluid has been formulated."
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...reviews-n.html

Ford says you cannot use the new low-drag transaxle fluid in the older FEH. If you can't exchange it with a newly formulated eCVT Mercon fluid, there must be reasons you can't exchange it with Mobil 1.

This stuff is not rocket science!

GaryG

 

One issue with plugging is that water, regardless of whether produced by gasoline or alcohol, leaving the cylinder as a gas, is then condensed on the cold metal surface of the exhaust system.

This then results in some formation of sulfuric acid with the sulfur coming from the gasoline. This then does bad things to the exhaust system.

If you run long enough to warm up the whole system then these bad byproducts of the combustion process are re-vaporized and pushed out the tail pipe.

Its only if you do repeated trips of short duration for an extended period that the long term damage is done.

Over the life of my Suburban there were two times where such damage occurred in the exhaust system. They were both coincident with short duration trips. The one where the catalytic convertor gave up the ghost was in a far colder winter climate with really short trips.