"Billy's changed the subject of water in my gas tank that mixes with E10 because of the alcohol in it, to the difference of combustion between gas and ethanol. Two completely different subject!"

You have twisted and turned in this thread attempting to connect your bias with what happened.

"water in my gas tank that mixes with E10 because of the alcohol in it,"
this tells us you don't get it and are scamming the readers.

 

The aha! moment...

So... all along this has been about water in the gas tank carried by ethanol thru the engine and then rotting out the exhaust system components...

OK, here's the facts:
1. Water in the exhaust stream will rot out things back there if the exhaust components are not allowed to thoroughly warm up.
2. Doesn't make any difference how the water got there.
3. Water is a combustion byproduct.
4. Even if the fuel tank is bone dry, there will be water in the exhaust stream.
5. Used to be, in the bad old days of carbureted engines and straight gas that we put methanol "gas dryer" in the tank a few times per winter to prevent fuel line freeze up by absorbing & carrying water thru the engine.
6. Now in the good better days of fuel injected engines and with ethanol routinely mixed in our gasoline, it seems that gas line freeze up is much rarer than those bad old days.

My opinion is:
1. With ethanol in our gasoline all the time our fuel tanks now have far less water normally since the ethanol carries it away with every tank.
2. Rot out of exhaust components should be looked at for relation to operating cycle such as short trips.
3. Routinely keeping a tank at partial fill adds to the introduction of moisture by the drawing in of moist air (as fuel is consumed) and overnight condensation with cool nights causing the condensation. (...And who fills up their tank every evening? I don't.)

Now that I understand the real underlying issue... the issue is the same as my issue with mr "g" ie pushing an agenda rather than looking carefully at the technical issues involved.

The scam is yours my friend...

 

I don't know what it is with Bill W. and Billy saying I'm scamming anyone here.

The problem in my area in Florida is moisture. Those of us with boats here better use a combination Water Separator/Fuel Filter (I use Racor) or the water collected in our tanks will cause breakdowns. These filters have a clear bowl on the bottom and a valve to drain the water from the gas. The water is heavier than the gas and stays separated.

I was running straight gas mostly for the first three years, but during that time I got E10 from unmarked gas pumps 5 times. It didn't matter how much E10 was added to my '05 FEH tank, my MPG average dropped like a rock and this continued until I ran 3 straight gas tanks through my FEH.

When I bad mouthed E10 in the past, I got the same old crap from people like Billy and Bill. There is a long list of problems with Ethanol and E10 you will not hear about from Billy who chooses to void his engine warranty to run higher Ethanol content than his vehicle is designed for.

One serious problem about adding E10 to a gas tank with the normal amount water that collects in our gas tanks over the years here in South Florida, is what is called "PHASE SEPARATION". I had a serious problem with phase separation when my oldest Son took my boat out and then replaced the gas he used with E10. This ruin all the gas already in the 63 gallon tank, my water separator filter and the carbs on my 150hp outboard. Had to buy a new 150hp Honda 4 stroke, drain and flush the green smelly gas mixture out of my tank and replace all the fuel lines and filters.

Adding E10 each of the 5 fills before E10 was mandated here in Florida caused "phase separation" and the ethanol mixed with the water and separated it from the gas at the bottom of my '05 FEH and my '02 Explorer gas tanks. Knowing and doing the things required before adding E10 was impossible not knowing the gas station got a load of E10 which most likely blended with the existing water in HIS storage tank and started the "phase separation" process before it was even pumped into my tanks.

I suggest reading a little on "Phase Separation" with Ethanol before saying someone is trying to scam this site.
You can start here: http://peijournal.org/content/1q09/gastoe10.php

GaryG

 

Adding E10 each of the 5 fills before E10 was mandated here in Florida caused "phase separation" and the ethanol mixed with the water and separated it from the gas at the bottom of my '05 FEH and my '02 Explorer gas tanks.

Your lack of evidence (note you stated caused-) of what you just posted means this is just what you thought happened. Referring to mileage results does not cover up this lack of evidence. Your mileage results do not provide evidence E10 caused the cat convertor in your old 05FEH to "plug up" or caused an undesired "chemical reaction" in your vehicle's system. Smearing others does not elevate your position. Get over it, you are pushing an agenda.

 

Your doing all the personal smearing hoping I'd say something you could report to the moderator police here. You and Bill are hoping I would be forced to leave GH so you could continue to promote Ethanol and recommend things I feel your telling people that would void their warranty.

There has to be a balance of opinions so good people who are new here can decide how to take care of their hybrids and other vehicles they own. I ask the good questions when people here are about to make decisions that will damage their vehicle or even void their warranty. You on the other hand demand evidence as if this was a trial.

The people here can read the data I provide and take my experience as evidence or not. The article I provided on "Phased Separation" is one of many written on the internet. Did you write the author of that article and ask him where his evidence is. Didn't think so.

GaryG

 

Oh my, oh my... touched a nerve did we...

I'm not pushing an agenda because I don't care whether you believe me or not, but it sure seems to make a difference whether people believe you or not. ...And that's the mark of a person with an agenda.

I track everything I do on my cars along with some record of operating environment. The juxtaposition of exhaust system rot out to operations was clear.

I drew an inference from it, tested it, and now operate my cars accordingly...

I don't have the rot out problems anymore. So whether you choose to believe me or not... I just don't care.

My 06 FEH works fine, lasts a long time, & drains to the bilge... What more can one ask for? Have a nice day & best of luck my friend...

 

Returning home after an exercise filled weekend, I find it amusing that the ethanol phase seperation article is being used as "evidence". The hydrocarbons found in gasoline (E0) absorb water! The oil companies have been known to use additives such as demulsifiers to make water fall out of the gasoline. These additives have a short shelf life.



If phase seperation occurred with E10, then why didn't reports of misfiring, stalling and engine dying occur three years ago? Since there was no such reports, how can one believe damage began then? Furthermore, the chart above shows if moisture was inside a vehicle's fuel tank, then running on E0 would induce symptoms much sooner than if one ran on higher blends.

 

I find it more than amusing you would recommend FEH owners voiding their engine warranty with E20! Go ahead, agree with your sidekick Bill W and tell everyone to void their eCVT warranty with a scam of ATF.

You give evidence that E-20 is approved!

GaryG

 

Interesting Fuel School website quote:

"One more concern with Ethanol and RFG or Ethanol and CVG is that Ethanol when mixed with water; they readily form Gums in the fuel system much quicker than gasoline without Ethanol. These Gums coat fuel system components including filters, carburetors, injectors, throttle plates; and will then form varnish and carbon deposits in the intake, on valves, and in the combustion chamber. These deposits can coat sensors and plug catalytic converters."

http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/...l-blended.html

But my opinion would be that the quick switch to E10 in FL sped up a problem that probably was there to begin with. Austin switched not that long ago and a lot of 2-cycle lawn equipment has bitten the dust but that's a different thing. Also the following article about stolen cats is interesting:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/k...s-being-stolen

 

You are posting a bunch of bull from the internet.

Your FEH has a CLOSED fuel system. It is a fact that to saturate one gallon of E0 (gasoline) with water vapor at 100F and 100% humidity, it would take over 200 DAYS. Water absorption from the air is far slower at lower temperatures--at 70F and 70% humidity it would take over TWO YEARS to saturate one gallon of E0. E10 can absorb more water vapor than E0 before saturating--see chart previously posted--and thus take longer to saturate.

Now if you are pouring water into your FEH, then we have a different story but then the engine is going to stall, die and need a tow. Thus we would not have been hearing of lifetime 43 mpg averages.