Question About FAS
#11
09-20-2005, 06:18 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Originally Posted by bigbearballs
So, it's not going to hurt our HCH's to P&G.
Most of the negitives I've read about have to do with safety. The lack of engine braking causes you to go too fast. If you engine cuts off (or you cut it off) while in N you will lose PS and PB. Of course on a HCH the PS is electric so that is no big deal. The vacuum assist will allow for a some PB as well so the safety concerns are real but much less with a hybrid. Still it is more dangerous to coast in N or FAS than to just drive regular.
#12
09-20-2005, 07:35 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Hi Lakedude:
___Interesting bunch of garbage those guys posted
___He sure didn’t get the math right. Should I mention the word nickel 
It is not just saving 2/40 of a gallon but also the fuel not burned over the 2 - 3 miles of idling as well as the multiple times per trip the individual mentioned let alone an entire tank. Even if it were just once every 40 miles, 38 miles at 40 mpg and 2 miles at infinite mpg does not = just 42 mpg, it = 42.10 mpg. It gets bigger the more FAS’ are performed. They also did not include how many times this person drives that 2 - 3 miles (multiple times) in a FAS over a single trip let alone an entire tank! Only a nickel?
___There is a man that knows what he is talking about … Anyone of us could fix that mess of a statement.
___At least he has come up to $3.00 now? Maybe Hot_Georgia_2004 has something to say about a $3.00 savings over a tank because of FAS as he lives in the same area.
___About ½ right this time. I bet he has never driven in an HCH or Insight
___The two items I did not like was the clutch release based start and riding the clutch. The throwout bearing is the killer of course. Although you do have the chance to burn out a starter motor (expensive little bugger’s too
) when FAS’ing and re-starting like normal, it is far better then riding the clutch all the way in and then loading it up to spin over the ICE (clutch plate wear) for a start … The HCH’s IMA starts are so gentle as to make the startup a non-issue.
___As for Honda’s Auto’s and CVT’s, the Auto’s are not std. Auto’s but manumatics and CVT’s are belt and pulley setups. In neutral, the Auto’s are disengaged and the CVT’s belt just slips around an open sheave at its worst.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Interesting bunch of garbage those guys posted
Ray: Here's my calculation: This car gets about 40 miles to the gallon. So if you coast two miles with the engine off, you're saving 2/40ths of a gallon, or about a nickle.
It is not just saving 2/40 of a gallon but also the fuel not burned over the 2 - 3 miles of idling as well as the multiple times per trip the individual mentioned let alone an entire tank. Even if it were just once every 40 miles, 38 miles at 40 mpg and 2 miles at infinite mpg does not = just 42 mpg, it = 42.10 mpg. It gets bigger the more FAS’ are performed. They also did not include how many times this person drives that 2 - 3 miles (multiple times) in a FAS over a single trip let alone an entire tank! Only a nickel?
Tom: But when the engine is off, you're in danger because you don't have any power brakes. Plus, one of these days when you shut off the engine, you're going to turn the key too far and get it into the "lock" position and lock the steering wheel.
Ray: Then you're going to plow into one of those roadside-boiled-peanut vendors, and he's going to sue you for five million dollars, which will more than wipe out the three bucks you saved by coasting.
Besides, I'm sure what you're doing is illegal. In fact, it's even illegal in most states to roll down a hill in Neutral with the engine ON! Even with the engine on, the car could stall, and you could lose your power brakes and power steering and never know it until you needed to stop or turn.
___The two items I did not like was the clutch release based start and riding the clutch. The throwout bearing is the killer of course. Although you do have the chance to burn out a starter motor (expensive little bugger’s too
) when FAS’ing and re-starting like normal, it is far better then riding the clutch all the way in and then loading it up to spin over the ICE (clutch plate wear) for a start … The HCH’s IMA starts are so gentle as to make the startup a non-issue.___As for Honda’s Auto’s and CVT’s, the Auto’s are not std. Auto’s but manumatics and CVT’s are belt and pulley setups. In neutral, the Auto’s are disengaged and the CVT’s belt just slips around an open sheave at its worst.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#13
09-20-2005, 07:58 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Clarification on AS (auto stop), which battery starts the car back up? The battery or the battery pack? By battery pack i mean the one behind the rear seat.
#14
09-20-2005, 08:21 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Hi Livvie:
___IMA based automobiles always start off the pack unless the pack is out of commission for whatever reason or it is colder then a witches … You know the rest of that statement In the Insight, I only had the regular 12V starter turn her over 2X’s and it was - 2 and - 4 degrees F when those 2 instances occurred.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___IMA based automobiles always start off the pack unless the pack is out of commission for whatever reason or it is colder then a witches … You know the rest of that statement
In the Insight, I only had the regular 12V starter turn her over 2X’s and it was - 2 and - 4 degrees F when those 2 instances occurred.___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#15
09-20-2005, 10:31 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Ok, some more questions... on "always"
Starting from cold... battery or pack? I assume battery.
FAS... battery or pack? I assume battery.
AS = pack.
If my assumptions are correct are you wearing the battery more than normal by FAS? If not, then apart from the occasional start, when does the battery come into play? When engine is off? That's it?
Starting from cold... battery or pack? I assume battery.
FAS... battery or pack? I assume battery.
AS = pack.
If my assumptions are correct are you wearing the battery more than normal by FAS? If not, then apart from the occasional start, when does the battery come into play? When engine is off? That's it?
#16
09-20-2005, 10:35 PM
Re: Question About FAS
The 12v battery and gear-reduction starter is never used to start the engine at all, unless there is something wrong with the HV battery, such as when it's too cold (older NiMH cells need to be warmed up before they will deliver much juice) or if it's otherwise dead (or thinks it's dead, such as during a recalibration or after the firmware is updated.
Think of the 12v starter as an emergency backup starter that will hardly see any action.
Think of the 12v starter as an emergency backup starter that will hardly see any action.
#17
09-20-2005, 10:36 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Hi Livvie:
___In an IMA equipped hybrid, “always pack” except when it’s below 0 degrees or thereabouts and /or a dead pack …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___In an IMA equipped hybrid, “always pack” except when it’s below 0 degrees or thereabouts and /or a dead pack …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#18
09-20-2005, 10:41 PM
Re: Question About FAS
Hi Livvie:
___The 12V is only needed to boot up the electronics. Without it, the IMA will never get the signal to spin the ICE up via the pack and MGSet. All the accessories are run off the 12V with the inverter/converter supplying the juice to keep the 12V charged when it falls below a given threshold voltage IIRC.
___Schwa, sorry for running over your own …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___The 12V is only needed to boot up the electronics. Without it, the IMA will never get the signal to spin the ICE up via the pack and MGSet. All the accessories are run off the 12V with the inverter/converter supplying the juice to keep the 12V charged when it falls below a given threshold voltage IIRC.
___Schwa, sorry for running over your own …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#20
09-21-2005, 10:12 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Question About FAS
Restarting the ICE after a rebbot, even repeatedly is a non-issue.
In my hilly area cruise control set at 60MPH is far more abusive to the pack with it's big MPG swings all the way into the 30's at times with over half Assist on the gauge.
I found that quite alarming, as I'm used to typically 5 bars, and for a short duration.
I haven't tracked my actual $ savings since doing FAS but it has been substantial.
My current tank has been a sacrificial one for MPG - travel time experiments.
I found that I can drive my 46 mile commute 99% freeway (55,65,70MPH limit) driving with load and average about 63MPH and get about 55-56MPG.
It's about a 45 minute trip.
Or...
I can drive about the same speed but exit the freeway 12 miles early and take the parallel highway home and get about 7 miles of pure FAS and park @ about 64MPG. I average about 45 MPH on that road and get there about 5 minutes later if I'm stopped at its 3 lights.
While the $ savings is not much per trip, I do save alot per tank, I save a whole lot more over the month......and a great amount over the life of the car, hopefully about 10 years.
In my hilly area cruise control set at 60MPH is far more abusive to the pack with it's big MPG swings all the way into the 30's at times with over half Assist on the gauge.
I found that quite alarming, as I'm used to typically 5 bars, and for a short duration.
Maybe Hot_Georgia_2004 has something to say about a $3.00 savings over a tank because of FAS as he lives in the same area.
My current tank has been a sacrificial one for MPG - travel time experiments.
I found that I can drive my 46 mile commute 99% freeway (55,65,70MPH limit) driving with load and average about 63MPH and get about 55-56MPG.
It's about a 45 minute trip.
Or...
I can drive about the same speed but exit the freeway 12 miles early and take the parallel highway home and get about 7 miles of pure FAS and park @ about 64MPG. I average about 45 MPH on that road and get there about 5 minutes later if I'm stopped at its 3 lights.
While the $ savings is not much per trip, I do save alot per tank, I save a whole lot more over the month......and a great amount over the life of the car, hopefully about 10 years.
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 09-21-2005 at 10:16 AM.
