ima battery replacement
#51
02-24-2010, 02:57 PM
Re: ima battery replacement
Hi Raja
The sticks on ebay may be good to get now. These batteries are a little hard to find locally and usually you need to get the entire pack from a junkyard too. Which is a little bothersome if you only need a few sticks. If you can spare the money 6 sticks from ebay should be plenty. I guess you can always sell what you dont use later.
The charger/reconditioners I used was an iMaxB6. There are a few others that I have heard of Robytronics (sp?) and Trogan2 (again spelling ?) are two I heard of in other blogs. I am told though that the iMax is cheaper to buy and works ok, though it is slower (ABOUT 32 HOURS FOR ONE STICK for 3 cycles) Expect to pay $50 to $150 for the gadget. Any optional software is a waste of money unless you intend to do this professionally many times and want to keep serious records.
Other tools to have are: a good digital multimeter, a new #2 phillips screwdriver with at least a 8" long handle and wide hand grips, needle nose pliers, flat screw driver, a nice spill-proof tray to put fasteners in, a good bench work light so you can see well.
Taking apart the pack goes like this:
On your clean workbench, pry off the side of the pack that has NONE of the electrical connection and wires. This is a soft foam plastic cover with 5 little clips. Under the cover you will find 20 little phillips screws and 20 10mm bolts. Take off the 10mm bolts first and then the phillips screws. DO NOT take off the other side of the pack first as it is a little dangerous at that moment. Once all those bolts and screws are out, Gently pry off the orange busbar/ cover. The little metal tabs the phillips screws held down will bend straight as you do this. If you would rather straighten out the tabs first, go ahead. Be careful though as the edges are very sharp!
Once this side is off there is no danger of electrocution. Each exposed terminal is no more than 8.7v now.
Next take off the other side of the pack. This is a little trickier since there are lots of wires and some hidden bolts there.
About the best I can tell you in email is look everywhere on that side of the pack for 10mm bolts! Some are under little grey rubber plugs (I think there were four.) Once you have located and removed all the bolts gently lift off the fuse/wiring/circuit breaker cover and be wary of the sensor wires connected to it! Do not pull them out of the batteries they are attached to!
I generally will fold the removed cover to lay on top of the pack as I unbolt the orange cover under it. Remove all the bolts and screws like you did on the other side. Gently pull off the sensor wires from the slots they are in on the orange busbar/cover. And then pry off the orange busbar/cover with a flat screw driver. Take photos so you can remember where all the stuff goes later!
To get the sticks out of the frame, slide them (and they are a little tight in there!) right to left as you would be seeing the pack in the car.
Three of the sticks have sensors attached to them!!! DO NOT pull the wires hard as they are a bastard to reinstall again!
I like working on each stick when it is out of the frame. This is so I can feel how warm they get during charger cycling. They should never get over 100F and will generally be a little warmer than the room temp as your reconditioner/charger works them.
Read your charger's instructions carefully concerning NiMh batteries. You will also need a 12" long jumper with alligator clips on each end to reach both ends of the stick. Use your multimeter to determine which end is positive or neg.
If a stick feels a lot warmer in different spots along it length during cycling, it has a problem and needs something more done to it. Of course if that is the case let me know. I have repaired every stick I have (my earlier posting mentioned 6 poor performing sticks. These have since been repaired using a different technique than what we are discussing now.)
When your charger is done, it should display a summary of what it did to the stick. A good stick will show 6400mAh charged and between 5700 and 6300 mAH discharged. But the most important thing is that ALL the sticks be very similiar in discharge mAh. This is for a complicated reason I will not get into here.
Good luck, let me know how thing go.
Mike
The sticks on ebay may be good to get now. These batteries are a little hard to find locally and usually you need to get the entire pack from a junkyard too. Which is a little bothersome if you only need a few sticks. If you can spare the money 6 sticks from ebay should be plenty. I guess you can always sell what you dont use later.
The charger/reconditioners I used was an iMaxB6. There are a few others that I have heard of Robytronics (sp?) and Trogan2 (again spelling ?) are two I heard of in other blogs. I am told though that the iMax is cheaper to buy and works ok, though it is slower (ABOUT 32 HOURS FOR ONE STICK for 3 cycles) Expect to pay $50 to $150 for the gadget. Any optional software is a waste of money unless you intend to do this professionally many times and want to keep serious records.
Other tools to have are: a good digital multimeter, a new #2 phillips screwdriver with at least a 8" long handle and wide hand grips, needle nose pliers, flat screw driver, a nice spill-proof tray to put fasteners in, a good bench work light so you can see well.
Taking apart the pack goes like this:
On your clean workbench, pry off the side of the pack that has NONE of the electrical connection and wires. This is a soft foam plastic cover with 5 little clips. Under the cover you will find 20 little phillips screws and 20 10mm bolts. Take off the 10mm bolts first and then the phillips screws. DO NOT take off the other side of the pack first as it is a little dangerous at that moment. Once all those bolts and screws are out, Gently pry off the orange busbar/ cover. The little metal tabs the phillips screws held down will bend straight as you do this. If you would rather straighten out the tabs first, go ahead. Be careful though as the edges are very sharp!
Once this side is off there is no danger of electrocution. Each exposed terminal is no more than 8.7v now.
Next take off the other side of the pack. This is a little trickier since there are lots of wires and some hidden bolts there.
About the best I can tell you in email is look everywhere on that side of the pack for 10mm bolts! Some are under little grey rubber plugs (I think there were four.) Once you have located and removed all the bolts gently lift off the fuse/wiring/circuit breaker cover and be wary of the sensor wires connected to it! Do not pull them out of the batteries they are attached to!
I generally will fold the removed cover to lay on top of the pack as I unbolt the orange cover under it. Remove all the bolts and screws like you did on the other side. Gently pull off the sensor wires from the slots they are in on the orange busbar/cover. And then pry off the orange busbar/cover with a flat screw driver. Take photos so you can remember where all the stuff goes later!
To get the sticks out of the frame, slide them (and they are a little tight in there!) right to left as you would be seeing the pack in the car.
Three of the sticks have sensors attached to them!!! DO NOT pull the wires hard as they are a bastard to reinstall again!
I like working on each stick when it is out of the frame. This is so I can feel how warm they get during charger cycling. They should never get over 100F and will generally be a little warmer than the room temp as your reconditioner/charger works them.
Read your charger's instructions carefully concerning NiMh batteries. You will also need a 12" long jumper with alligator clips on each end to reach both ends of the stick. Use your multimeter to determine which end is positive or neg.
If a stick feels a lot warmer in different spots along it length during cycling, it has a problem and needs something more done to it. Of course if that is the case let me know. I have repaired every stick I have (my earlier posting mentioned 6 poor performing sticks. These have since been repaired using a different technique than what we are discussing now.)
When your charger is done, it should display a summary of what it did to the stick. A good stick will show 6400mAh charged and between 5700 and 6300 mAH discharged. But the most important thing is that ALL the sticks be very similiar in discharge mAh. This is for a complicated reason I will not get into here.
Good luck, let me know how thing go.
Mike
#52
03-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Re: ima battery replacement
It would seem that the hybrid car makers are getting a bunch of black-eyes lately: Cars that accelerate out of control (as in Prius'. There was another one just today!) and cars that wont accelerate well (HCH's). Even with a functional battery a HCH is still NOT a very quick car!! Life in the very fast and very slow lanes, as it were. LOL!
My best advice to all you disappointed hybrid owners is to keep up yelling loud and clear to the automakers that this is not a good way to do business and then stop buying their defective junk. The American market place is not a "lab" where those cheap bums can run engineering experiments!
My best advice to all you disappointed hybrid owners is to keep up yelling loud and clear to the automakers that this is not a good way to do business and then stop buying their defective junk. The American market place is not a "lab" where those cheap bums can run engineering experiments!
#53
03-09-2010, 06:40 PM
Re: ima battery replacement
I have no problem with the acceleration of my HCH. On whose behalf are you speaking? What were you expectations of it in the first place?
#54
03-09-2010, 07:27 PM
Re: ima battery replacement
Some folks are just used to lots of power Christian. I personally find the power OK as well. Hal
Thanks for the repair manual Electiclamb. Very interesting stuff. I would not tackle it as I'm not a electrician but I know one that would love to work on the pack.Hal
Thanks for the repair manual Electiclamb. Very interesting stuff. I would not tackle it as I'm not a electrician but I know one that would love to work on the pack.Hal
#55
03-10-2010, 07:16 AM
Re: ima battery replacement
Hi again Hal! Hi Christian. You are right that most drivers expect a car that can move quickly. I am not one of them (a little 4 banger's 1.4 to 1.6 L. typical accl is ok with most of my habits) however many of the other posts I find do expect to be bit faster off the line. It is obvious that Detroit has done a fine job of brainwashing the public.
What I meant to say to C's post was that since I find so many people out here that have sad stories of some sort that if they expect any real improvement in the tech for hybrids and electric cars, then they need to do a lot more than just post complaints here (or on other blogs.) C's report of what the dealer originally did is typical of what I see happening with their: "since I dont find anything wrong then you must be crazy." These sorts of responses from so called "mechanics" really tick me off. Far too many of them have zero clue what these hybrid are really doing and go only by what the car computer tells them (which is not much.) The current Prius issues are prime examples of what is wrong with mechanics and the back up engineering support from the makers of the cars.
The automakers really need to get their act together, share knowledge and train mechanics on all this new tech. Making us (the people who make them rich by buying their stuff) happy should take a much higher priority than just selling half engineered crap. At the very least they should be honest about what is wrong with the cars and not just lie about it!
I suspect that C received a new pack just to shut him up. Honda engineers have no idea why cells go bad. I have a few ideas why myself though. The best one is that Honda knows it messed up with the design and specs (cheaping out on a battery is a very bad idea, undersizing shortens it's life a lot) and so now they are in "duck and cover" mode (maybe with a little bribery too.)
What I meant to say to C's post was that since I find so many people out here that have sad stories of some sort that if they expect any real improvement in the tech for hybrids and electric cars, then they need to do a lot more than just post complaints here (or on other blogs.) C's report of what the dealer originally did is typical of what I see happening with their: "since I dont find anything wrong then you must be crazy." These sorts of responses from so called "mechanics" really tick me off. Far too many of them have zero clue what these hybrid are really doing and go only by what the car computer tells them (which is not much.) The current Prius issues are prime examples of what is wrong with mechanics and the back up engineering support from the makers of the cars.
The automakers really need to get their act together, share knowledge and train mechanics on all this new tech. Making us (the people who make them rich by buying their stuff) happy should take a much higher priority than just selling half engineered crap. At the very least they should be honest about what is wrong with the cars and not just lie about it!
I suspect that C received a new pack just to shut him up. Honda engineers have no idea why cells go bad. I have a few ideas why myself though. The best one is that Honda knows it messed up with the design and specs (cheaping out on a battery is a very bad idea, undersizing shortens it's life a lot) and so now they are in "duck and cover" mode (maybe with a little bribery too.)
#57
03-11-2010, 07:03 PM
Re: ima battery replacement
At least they could try something. Check with other dealers. Change the pack if it's not acting the way it should? What are they there for? I think to make repairs, right.If a engine fails they repair or replace it, why not do the same with the IMA system? Hal
#58
03-11-2010, 10:05 PM
Re: ima battery replacement
I have a 2006 Hybrid. I replaced my battery at appx 40,000 miles.
I learned that the vehicle will run without the battery but not very well. I loses an exceptional amount of acceleration and performs poorly.
Dealer gave me no trouble, the car was just down two days for repair.
I learned that the vehicle will run without the battery but not very well. I loses an exceptional amount of acceleration and performs poorly.
Dealer gave me no trouble, the car was just down two days for repair.
#59
03-12-2010, 10:26 AM
Re: ima battery replacement
Don't waste your time responding to henry47, roswell, or brett...it's one and the same spammer, copying & pasting other people's posts. Check out "their" signature links and sign-offs.
#60
03-17-2010, 09:46 AM
Re: ima battery replacement
Brett,
That sounds like the same issue I had...(See this thread in the HCH II discussion: https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...-parked-23824/).
I live in Arizona and though it was heat related as well, but I've seen the same issue all winter long.
I also felt it was a safety issue to suddenly not have the available power when you needed it. I nearly got into a couple of accidents when pulling out into traffic (with 8 bars) only to find the vehicle was recalibrating.
The new software only served to supress the fault code....
I had to fight with the dealer and even opened a customer service case with American Honda. They eventually gave in and agreed to replace my battery.
My advice is to do the same. Ask your dealer for a phone number you can call to escalate the issue. In addition, call American Honda and register a complaint with them.
If you have to threaten to go public......
That sounds like the same issue I had...(See this thread in the HCH II discussion: https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...-parked-23824/).
I live in Arizona and though it was heat related as well, but I've seen the same issue all winter long.
I also felt it was a safety issue to suddenly not have the available power when you needed it. I nearly got into a couple of accidents when pulling out into traffic (with 8 bars) only to find the vehicle was recalibrating.
The new software only served to supress the fault code....
I had to fight with the dealer and even opened a customer service case with American Honda. They eventually gave in and agreed to replace my battery.
My advice is to do the same. Ask your dealer for a phone number you can call to escalate the issue. In addition, call American Honda and register a complaint with them.
If you have to threaten to go public......
