EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
#71
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
One way is for the car to only use regenerative brakes when coasting if it detects it's on a downhill. The other is to make touching the gas pedal (while barely pressing it) disengage regenerative braking without starting up the engine.
Either one of those methods would be great. And the reason the car should arguably be allowed to use regenerative brakes without explicitly using the brake is that people will have to brake down large hills to maintain speed, but they're taught that that'll destroy them since it's bad with other cars. It'll be fine in the HCH but they won't know that. Also they wouldn't be expecting the car to speed up so much on downhills.
Either one of those methods would be great. And the reason the car should arguably be allowed to use regenerative brakes without explicitly using the brake is that people will have to brake down large hills to maintain speed, but they're taught that that'll destroy them since it's bad with other cars. It'll be fine in the HCH but they won't know that. Also they wouldn't be expecting the car to speed up so much on downhills.
Perhaps a "brake" switch similar to the Prius could allow for optional max regen when coasting as well.
As it is on my '03, on gradual downhills in town I only have a choice between regen eating up all my speed, or coasting in neutral... although, on the Hybrid Civic, idling seems to use very minimal fuel when the engine is warm. If I'm in a situation where I woujld need to use gas even to cancel out the braking effect of the spinning engine, neutral is more economical. I'd imagine though that on the '06 with cylinder shutoff, engine braking would be much less than even the '03, enough so to make it superior to neutral at most speeds.
#72
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Originally Posted by Double-Trinity
As it is on my '03, on gradual downhills in town I only have a choice between regen eating up all my speed, or coasting in neutral...
#73
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Originally Posted by NASAgineer
How do the pre-06 HCH's work? Does full regen kick in as soon as you take your foot off the gas? Or when you apply any amount of brake pressure? I have no experience in any hybrid other than the 06HCH, so I'm curious.
#74
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Hi NASAgineer:
___I think the following may help come up with my interpretation of what I would like to see vs. what you are actually experiencing as far as SoC depletion and acceleration rates … Your view point is far more accurate then mine in regards to the HCH-II of course … “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
___As CGameProgrammer mentioned, the HCH-II doesn’t have a leanburn mode but you have an atkinsonized intake. This is the trade off for low load drivers in the HCH-I vs. the HCH-II. You have to get some of that tire rolling resistance (higher pressure in the tires) and mechanical rotational friction (Mobil1 0W-20 vs. the moly laydened goo in her now ) beat out of her to really tell what she is worth in the steady speed cruise but what you are doing so far is great start!
___Let me know what kind of tires she is equipped with. Most tire manufacturers have a MAX sidewall of 44 #’s with some of the HCH-I’s shod with some 51 #’ers. I run all my automobiles with Michelin’s, GY’s, Bridgestone’s, and Continental’s at 50 + except in the MDX (35 #’s MAX sidewall on the Michelin X-Terrains) and they go to 37 as that is the wife’s car.
___And back on track possibly? I would not use your new found EV mode for holding a steady speed but for slow bleed off w/ no regen and maybe a slight amount of Assist to get you over the next slight hill and such. Maintaining a steady cruise off a .5kWh usable pack is really pushing her hard and over time, this is not a good thing no matter how much more protection Honda has designed into her from previous gen IMA systems. I can tell you from a thousand reads on the subject that Honda is the loosest hybrid manufacturer in regards to pack protection constraints and even on the CVT based HCH-I’s, it leaves something to be desired. Secondly, learn to DWL where possible. Honda has given you a great tool and with the DWL technique, you should be able to maintain longer glides/coasts and your FE should improve mightily even where you would think it would not work in the least.
___GoNavy, Honda certainly is approaching nirvana even with IMA’s limitations as NASAgineer is explaining in excellent detail to all of us. The ICE-Off neutral in any car is indeed illegal in some locales yet Honda got away with 19 mph and below in the Insight 5-speed w/ Clutch in (she is running in neutral w/ clutch engaged even while in gear) and lower speed AS’s in the HCH-I and AH. The Prius II is in a pure EV or Glide mode depending on throttle input and if the interlocks are made up for ICE-Off on a coast down from 40 mph and below so it is not technically ever in neutral. That was a great explanation on a control volume (intake/exhaust valves and piston cycle as a stand alone) in the HCH-II’s valves closed ops mode. I still wish IMA was on the outside vs. inside of the CVT so that you wouldn’t have to spin that crank, cam shaft even though the valves are closed, drive those pistons up and down, and keep that tranny fully engaged is all
___As far as all the tricks, you bet I would like to get rid of them! It will not be long and all cars will be designed with these tricks built in and its about ****ed time The FEH, Prius II, and now the HCH-II are getting very close to where they need to be. Another generation of HSD and IMA and we should see optimization … I can only hope?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Originally Posted by NASAgineer
If I do the pulse with no assist (as you describe), why would the SoC drop at all?
Originally Posted by NASAgineer
I was getting a sustained 60-65MPG (hard to tell, but I think it was 13-14 blocks on the instant MPG) at 48MPH for a stretch today. Is there any way to tell if it's in lean-burn?
Originally Posted by NASAgineer
Really? They are rated at 32PSI.
___And back on track possibly? I would not use your new found EV mode for holding a steady speed but for slow bleed off w/ no regen and maybe a slight amount of Assist to get you over the next slight hill and such. Maintaining a steady cruise off a .5kWh usable pack is really pushing her hard and over time, this is not a good thing no matter how much more protection Honda has designed into her from previous gen IMA systems. I can tell you from a thousand reads on the subject that Honda is the loosest hybrid manufacturer in regards to pack protection constraints and even on the CVT based HCH-I’s, it leaves something to be desired. Secondly, learn to DWL where possible. Honda has given you a great tool and with the DWL technique, you should be able to maintain longer glides/coasts and your FE should improve mightily even where you would think it would not work in the least.
___GoNavy, Honda certainly is approaching nirvana even with IMA’s limitations as NASAgineer is explaining in excellent detail to all of us. The ICE-Off neutral in any car is indeed illegal in some locales yet Honda got away with 19 mph and below in the Insight 5-speed w/ Clutch in (she is running in neutral w/ clutch engaged even while in gear) and lower speed AS’s in the HCH-I and AH. The Prius II is in a pure EV or Glide mode depending on throttle input and if the interlocks are made up for ICE-Off on a coast down from 40 mph and below so it is not technically ever in neutral. That was a great explanation on a control volume (intake/exhaust valves and piston cycle as a stand alone) in the HCH-II’s valves closed ops mode. I still wish IMA was on the outside vs. inside of the CVT so that you wouldn’t have to spin that crank, cam shaft even though the valves are closed, drive those pistons up and down, and keep that tranny fully engaged is all
___As far as all the tricks, you bet I would like to get rid of them! It will not be long and all cars will be designed with these tricks built in and its about ****ed time The FEH, Prius II, and now the HCH-II are getting very close to where they need to be. Another generation of HSD and IMA and we should see optimization … I can only hope?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#76
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer
The stock tires are Dunlop SP37 A/S. Size P165-60-15.
Terry
#77
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Hi CGameProgrammer:
___I cannot find a single thing on those Dunlops anywhere? I found a place that sells the SP37’s at 0% used off of other vehicles for an extremely attractive price but TireRack and Dunlop itself has no specs for them listed that I can find? Can you read the MAX Sidewall Pressure off the sidewalls for us? Since you are looking at them that closely, would you mind posting the Treadwear, Traction, and Temperature ratings off the sidewall as well?
___Thanks in advance.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___I cannot find a single thing on those Dunlops anywhere? I found a place that sells the SP37’s at 0% used off of other vehicles for an extremely attractive price but TireRack and Dunlop itself has no specs for them listed that I can find? Can you read the MAX Sidewall Pressure off the sidewalls for us? Since you are looking at them that closely, would you mind posting the Treadwear, Traction, and Temperature ratings off the sidewall as well?
___Thanks in advance.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#78
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
You know, I'm now seeing people echo the statement "no lean-burn for the new HCH" - but I saw on a website referenced by tigerhonaker in this forum a few weeks ago that the HCH-II did retain lean-burn (can't find it now, however). I believe that site was the hondanews.com site.
When I went there just now... http://hondanews.com/CatID2013?mid=2...41801&mime=asc
...they're referencing i-DSI , I believe - and if so, isn't that like a "super lean-burn", compared to the old lean-burn setup ? (start reading about halfway down the page for the HCH info)
Also - I see reference to the 'atkinsonized intake'. Can someone explain how that conclusion was reached ? I'm thinking this is still a 'traditional' otto-cycle engine.
When I went there just now... http://hondanews.com/CatID2013?mid=2...41801&mime=asc
...they're referencing i-DSI , I believe - and if so, isn't that like a "super lean-burn", compared to the old lean-burn setup ? (start reading about halfway down the page for the HCH info)
Also - I see reference to the 'atkinsonized intake'. Can someone explain how that conclusion was reached ? I'm thinking this is still a 'traditional' otto-cycle engine.
#79
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Originally Posted by xcel
Hi NASAgineer:
___I think the following may help come up with my interpretation of what I would like to see vs. what you are actually experiencing as far as SoC depletion and acceleration rates … Your view point is far more accurate then mine in regards to the HCH-II of course … “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
___I think the following may help come up with my interpretation of what I would like to see vs. what you are actually experiencing as far as SoC depletion and acceleration rates … Your view point is far more accurate then mine in regards to the HCH-II of course … “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Originally Posted by xcel
(Mobil1 0W-20 vs. the moly laydened goo in her now )
Originally Posted by xcel
___Let me know what kind of tires she is equipped with.
"Bridgestone Insignia SE 200"
"P195/65R15"
"Max load 1279 lbs. at 44 PSI max pressure"
but it also says:
"Never exceed 40 PSI to seat beads"
treadwear 380
traction B
temperature B
#80
Re: EV (electric-only) mode finally spotted in 06 HCH!
Originally Posted by xcel
I cannot find a single thing on those Dunlops anywhere? I found a place that sells the SP37’s at 0% used off of other vehicles for an extremely attractive price but TireRack and Dunlop itself has no specs for them listed that I can find? Can you read the MAX Sidewall Pressure off the sidewalls for us? Since you are looking at them that closely, would you mind posting the Treadwear, Traction, and Temperature ratings off the sidewall as well?
Anyway I read all the information on the tire. Well for one I was wrong about one measurement (width?); it's 65, not 60. Anyway here are the stats:
Max pressure: 44 PSI
Max load: 1279 lbs
Treadwear rating: 320
Traction rating: A
Temperature rating: B