Engine Malfunction
Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 23
Re: Engine Malfunction
Chuck -
Glad Honda took care of everything, but of course they kinda had to given the fact you won the arbitration. In Georgia anyway, manufacturers are fined $1000 / day for noncompliance, so they are pretty motivated to settle up when that time comes. I assume Texas laws are probably similar in this regard. Naturally, it would have been much better if Honda had owned up to this on their own rather than putting you and the Mrs. through the arbitration process - which in itself is a lot of work and quite time consuming. Honda fared no better in the end and might have kept you as a customer had they handled things differently. I also find it disturbing that NOW they ask the dealer to really really fix it, when they could have done this for you...strange indeed.
Glad to hear your TCH is serving you well. They are very nice cars as I test drove them prior to buying the HAH. The lack of power was the deciding factor for me, but otherwise a superior vehicle.
Glad Honda took care of everything, but of course they kinda had to given the fact you won the arbitration. In Georgia anyway, manufacturers are fined $1000 / day for noncompliance, so they are pretty motivated to settle up when that time comes. I assume Texas laws are probably similar in this regard. Naturally, it would have been much better if Honda had owned up to this on their own rather than putting you and the Mrs. through the arbitration process - which in itself is a lot of work and quite time consuming. Honda fared no better in the end and might have kept you as a customer had they handled things differently. I also find it disturbing that NOW they ask the dealer to really really fix it, when they could have done this for you...strange indeed.
Glad to hear your TCH is serving you well. They are very nice cars as I test drove them prior to buying the HAH. The lack of power was the deciding factor for me, but otherwise a superior vehicle.
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
Re: Engine Malfunction
Today Honda repurchased our vehicle after a long and arduous road, which started in April 2007. It was sad to see her go. Honda ended up paying for everything (including the used portion of the extended warranty) with the exception of the state lemon law mandated depreciation. Being retired folks on a fixed income we are grateful to be out from under the liability and in a new vehicle that is working well.
The most ironic item that surfaced, however, was that Honda directed the dealership to: “please attempt to have the vehicle repaired by 2/28/2008” and claim it to Warranty. This is after the Honda engineering department had previously declared that the vehicle was operating as designed during the last time it was in for repair and that this was a characteristic of ’06 and ’07 Accord Hybrids. The symptom description on the Service Repair Notice was very cursory (Engine backfires and hesitates while driving). This broad description may not be sufficient for a mechanic / tech to identify and duplicate. This was the same dealership that tried to fix it four times before, but the assistant manager who worked the issue is no longer at the dealership. I’m not sure how much effort will be spent diagnosing or fixing the vehicle. There are instructions if the dealer is not able to repair the vehicle but my fears are that the dealer will drive the car, not identify the issue, declare that it is driving normally- and then Honda may put it up for sale again via a wholesale auction. Eventually it could work its way back to an unsuspecting public. I hope that this is not true as part of the transfer documentation says it was being repurchased pursuant the lemon law. We tried to make the circumstances clear to the dealership today.
Chuck
The most ironic item that surfaced, however, was that Honda directed the dealership to: “please attempt to have the vehicle repaired by 2/28/2008” and claim it to Warranty. This is after the Honda engineering department had previously declared that the vehicle was operating as designed during the last time it was in for repair and that this was a characteristic of ’06 and ’07 Accord Hybrids. The symptom description on the Service Repair Notice was very cursory (Engine backfires and hesitates while driving). This broad description may not be sufficient for a mechanic / tech to identify and duplicate. This was the same dealership that tried to fix it four times before, but the assistant manager who worked the issue is no longer at the dealership. I’m not sure how much effort will be spent diagnosing or fixing the vehicle. There are instructions if the dealer is not able to repair the vehicle but my fears are that the dealer will drive the car, not identify the issue, declare that it is driving normally- and then Honda may put it up for sale again via a wholesale auction. Eventually it could work its way back to an unsuspecting public. I hope that this is not true as part of the transfer documentation says it was being repurchased pursuant the lemon law. We tried to make the circumstances clear to the dealership today.
Chuck
When my car was bought back they told me that my car would probably go to southern CA where the engineers could try to figure out what was wrong & "possibly" fix it, then on the auction block it most-likely would go.
BUYER BEWARE!
Karen
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Re: Engine Malfunction
I just stumbled across this discussion. I had a 2005 HAH with similar problems. Two or three times a month the malfunction light would flash at high throttle, usually when passing a car or entering a freeway. If it flashed longer than a few seconds, an error code for misfiring was stored and the light stayed on. Cold idle often chugged and sometimes the car had trouble coming out of auto-stop. All engine problems that did not store an error code were dismissed by Honda. For those that did generate error codes, Honda re-calibrated the crankcase position sensor, replaced the crankcase position sensor and harness, replaced a defective ignition coil, re-calibrated the valve clearance, and performed a few software upgrades. Nothing ever fixed it and the car was spending way too much at the dealership. Selling wasn't an option because it wouldn't have passed a mandatory smog test with its error codes. I had to lemon the car.
G.H. Contributor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
From: The Music City, Tennessee
Re: Engine Malfunction
I just stumbled across this discussion. I had a 2005 HAH with similar problems. Two or three times a month the malfunction light would flash at high throttle, usually when passing a car or entering a freeway. If it flashed longer than a few seconds, an error code for misfiring was stored and the light stayed on. Cold idle often chugged and sometimes the car had trouble coming out of auto-stop. All engine problems that did not store an error code were dismissed by Honda. For those that did generate error codes, Honda re-calibrated the crankcase position sensor, replaced the crankcase position sensor and harness, replaced a defective ignition coil, re-calibrated the valve clearance, and performed a few software upgrades. Nothing ever fixed it and the car was spending way too much at the dealership. Selling wasn't an option because it wouldn't have passed a mandatory smog test with its error codes. I had to lemon the car.
Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 23
Re: Engine Malfunction
Update on my arbitration case: I have had the same issues as others on the board with backfiring and misfiring on my 07 HAH. Unfortunately Honda gave me the same treatment as others - meaning that they denied anything was wrong with the car. I went to arbitration through my state's consumer affairs board.
Honda was absent at the hearing and claimed that they never received the summons. After some research, the panel verified that they had in fact received the summons (and Honda had failed to notify the state of an alleged change in contact internally which caused the summons to get misdirected and subsequently ignored). The state also conducted a compliance review and found that summons was delivered appropriately and any misdirection was Honda's own internal issue. The state denied continuance and proceeded with the hearing as they were paying for the attorneys chairing the arbitration panel, and given the fact that I was there and fully prepared.
I won the arbitration case and was awarded repurchase. I should note that this was not a default judgment due to Honda's absence. I still presented my facts as if Honda was there, and the panel asked questions in the same manner. However, Honda--apparently chapped at the denial of continuance--has advised they are filing for a Trial de Novo in Superior Court. This is allowed in my state.
In a Trial de Novo, the manufacturer's bill only gets higher as they are required not only to post security for the arbitration award, but also pay the consumer's attorney fees and any additional costs (more expert witnesses, etc.) should the arbitration decision be affirmed.
While I consider this a disappointment as I did not want to go through a civil trial, there is good news. The laws of legal discovery apply. So, the claims of so-called "normal operation" will require some significant disclosure on Honda's part under the penalty of perjury if they fail to disclose or provide false information to a legal discovery request. I for one am quite anxious to get to the root of this problem.
So, back to the drawing board. I am currently in conversation with a few different attorneys in hopes of finding one that is willing to go the distance. My original attorney is having to roll off the case as he doesn't practice in the city where Honda is incorporated in my state. All in all, I believe the merits of my case are as strong in trial court as they were in arbitration and feel that Honda will only achieve further financial loss for dragging this out.
Honda was absent at the hearing and claimed that they never received the summons. After some research, the panel verified that they had in fact received the summons (and Honda had failed to notify the state of an alleged change in contact internally which caused the summons to get misdirected and subsequently ignored). The state also conducted a compliance review and found that summons was delivered appropriately and any misdirection was Honda's own internal issue. The state denied continuance and proceeded with the hearing as they were paying for the attorneys chairing the arbitration panel, and given the fact that I was there and fully prepared.
I won the arbitration case and was awarded repurchase. I should note that this was not a default judgment due to Honda's absence. I still presented my facts as if Honda was there, and the panel asked questions in the same manner. However, Honda--apparently chapped at the denial of continuance--has advised they are filing for a Trial de Novo in Superior Court. This is allowed in my state.
In a Trial de Novo, the manufacturer's bill only gets higher as they are required not only to post security for the arbitration award, but also pay the consumer's attorney fees and any additional costs (more expert witnesses, etc.) should the arbitration decision be affirmed.
While I consider this a disappointment as I did not want to go through a civil trial, there is good news. The laws of legal discovery apply. So, the claims of so-called "normal operation" will require some significant disclosure on Honda's part under the penalty of perjury if they fail to disclose or provide false information to a legal discovery request. I for one am quite anxious to get to the root of this problem.
So, back to the drawing board. I am currently in conversation with a few different attorneys in hopes of finding one that is willing to go the distance. My original attorney is having to roll off the case as he doesn't practice in the city where Honda is incorporated in my state. All in all, I believe the merits of my case are as strong in trial court as they were in arbitration and feel that Honda will only achieve further financial loss for dragging this out.
G.H. Contributor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
From: The Music City, Tennessee
Re: Engine Malfunction
Update on my arbitration case: I have had the same issues as others on the board with backfiring and misfiring on my 07 HAH. Unfortunately Honda gave me the same treatment as others - meaning that they denied anything was wrong with the car. I went to arbitration through my state's consumer affairs board.
Honda was absent at the hearing and claimed that they never received the summons. After some research, the panel verified that they had in fact received the summons (and Honda had failed to notify the state of an alleged change in contact internally which caused the summons to get misdirected and subsequently ignored). The state also conducted a compliance review and found that summons was delivered appropriately and any misdirection was Honda's own internal issue. The state denied continuance and proceeded with the hearing as they were paying for the attorneys chairing the arbitration panel, and given the fact that I was there and fully prepared.
I won the arbitration case and was awarded repurchase. I should note that this was not a default judgment due to Honda's absence. I still presented my facts as if Honda was there, and the panel asked questions in the same manner. However, Honda--apparently chapped at the denial of continuance--has advised they are filing for a Trial de Novo in Superior Court. This is allowed in my state.
In a Trial de Novo, the manufacturer's bill only gets higher as they are required not only to post security for the arbitration award, but also pay the consumer's attorney fees and any additional costs (more expert witnesses, etc.) should the arbitration decision be affirmed.
While I consider this a disappointment as I did not want to go through a civil trial, there is good news. The laws of legal discovery apply. So, the claims of so-called "normal operation" will require some significant disclosure on Honda's part under the penalty of perjury if they fail to disclose or provide false information to a legal discovery request. I for one am quite anxious to get to the root of this problem.
So, back to the drawing board. I am currently in conversation with a few different attorneys in hopes of finding one that is willing to go the distance. My original attorney is having to roll off the case as he doesn't practice in the city where Honda is incorporated in my state. All in all, I believe the merits of my case are as strong in trial court as they were in arbitration and feel that Honda will only achieve further financial loss for dragging this out.
Honda was absent at the hearing and claimed that they never received the summons. After some research, the panel verified that they had in fact received the summons (and Honda had failed to notify the state of an alleged change in contact internally which caused the summons to get misdirected and subsequently ignored). The state also conducted a compliance review and found that summons was delivered appropriately and any misdirection was Honda's own internal issue. The state denied continuance and proceeded with the hearing as they were paying for the attorneys chairing the arbitration panel, and given the fact that I was there and fully prepared.
I won the arbitration case and was awarded repurchase. I should note that this was not a default judgment due to Honda's absence. I still presented my facts as if Honda was there, and the panel asked questions in the same manner. However, Honda--apparently chapped at the denial of continuance--has advised they are filing for a Trial de Novo in Superior Court. This is allowed in my state.
In a Trial de Novo, the manufacturer's bill only gets higher as they are required not only to post security for the arbitration award, but also pay the consumer's attorney fees and any additional costs (more expert witnesses, etc.) should the arbitration decision be affirmed.
While I consider this a disappointment as I did not want to go through a civil trial, there is good news. The laws of legal discovery apply. So, the claims of so-called "normal operation" will require some significant disclosure on Honda's part under the penalty of perjury if they fail to disclose or provide false information to a legal discovery request. I for one am quite anxious to get to the root of this problem.
So, back to the drawing board. I am currently in conversation with a few different attorneys in hopes of finding one that is willing to go the distance. My original attorney is having to roll off the case as he doesn't practice in the city where Honda is incorporated in my state. All in all, I believe the merits of my case are as strong in trial court as they were in arbitration and feel that Honda will only achieve further financial loss for dragging this out.
Hope everything works out for you in this situation with Honda to where you actually "Do-Not" loose any MONEY.
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
Re: Engine Malfunction
I have an '05 HAH and if you're talking about the popping/backfiring noise. I have it!! I bought the car used with 9000 miles on it and I now have around 76000 miles on it. It JUST started making the noise about a month ago. I have had it at the dealership twice now for the problem. The first time they kept it two days, could not recreate the noise and had me pick it up. The second time I did a drive-a-long with the technician, he heard the noise but couldn't tell where it was coming from. They again kept the car for 2 days but couldn't find the problem and told me to pick it up. They said they were going to borrow another '05 HAH and see if they could recreate the noise with that car. Of course, they couldn't. Since then I sent the service manager several emails containing threads from this website and others showing him that I am not the only one with this problem. He contacted Honda Techline and they told him it was simply a characteristic of the car. I guess it just happened to not show itself until now. I am continuing my efforts in getting this fixed but not having much luck. Any comments, suggestions, information any one could give me would be GREATLY appreciated!
G.H. Contributor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
From: The Music City, Tennessee
Re: Engine Malfunction
I have an '05 HAH and if you're talking about the popping/backfiring noise. I have it!! I bought the car used with 9000 miles on it and I now have around 76000 miles on it. It JUST started making the noise about a month ago. I have had it at the dealership twice now for the problem. The first time they kept it two days, could not recreate the noise and had me pick it up. The second time I did a drive-a-long with the technician, he heard the noise but couldn't tell where it was coming from. They again kept the car for 2 days but couldn't find the problem and told me to pick it up. They said they were going to borrow another '05 HAH and see if they could recreate the noise with that car. Of course, they couldn't. Since then I sent the service manager several emails containing threads from this website and others showing him that I am not the only one with this problem. He contacted Honda Techline and they told him it was simply a characteristic of the car. I guess it just happened to not show itself until now. I am continuing my efforts in getting this fixed but not having much luck. Any comments, suggestions, information any one could give me would be GREATLY appreciated!
Wish I could give You some "Helpful" info. on your situation but I cannot.
This may just end up that You will have to put up with it.
I have a 2007 HAH and do not have the problem.
But, who knows what the Future will bring.
It does not have many miles on it as the wife works now at Home. So HAH just mainly sits.
I might mention this and I am Posting this from Memory. I don't really think this can be "Corrected" by a Honda Dealer as I recall the Post made by other Members.
Some of them got Their cars Bought back by Honda and as I recall that was NOT a very easy thing to do. Also I think those Hondas were purchased New.
You could try calling Honda Customer Relations and see what they say. But Honestly I would Not get my Hopes up.
This is really a Great Car and it is a shame that some of them have this Odd Behavior. I really Hate that Honda did not step up to bat on this for those Owners that have ended up with cars with the problem.
Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12
Re: Engine Malfunction
I just took my 2005 HAH into the dealer for the second time for the Engine Malfunction light (this occurred in Oct 2008 as well). My issue seems to be similiar with others. If I need to accelerate rather hard during a short merge on the interstate, the Engine Malfunction light comes on (at least it did 2 times now). The dealer found a misfire code was erroneously appearing as the engine was not misfiring even though the engine malfunction light was on.
My issue is that when that light is on, the ECO will not function properly either since the computer believes that there is/was a misfire when there isn't one.
Has anyone else seen this with their HAH? When you give it hard acceleration, the engine malfunction light comes on? Fortunately for me, this time around the dealer didn't charge me that standard $75 diagnostic fee.
Another issue I just noticed: I hear a high whining sound from the speakers (even with radio off) at speeds above 60 mph. It isn't that loud, but it can be noticed to the trained ear. Not sure if this relates to the noise cancelling system or not (I incidentally had to get that replaced a while back due to the bass rumbling sound I would hear at lower speeds - thanks to Green Hybrid, I did the test and found my noise cancelling system to be faulty).
Anyone else out there hear a high-pitched whining sound that flucatuates with gas pedal pressure (i.e. the faster you go, the higher the pitch of the sound - again at speeds above 60 mph). Sorry to put 2 questions in one thread....
My issue is that when that light is on, the ECO will not function properly either since the computer believes that there is/was a misfire when there isn't one.
Has anyone else seen this with their HAH? When you give it hard acceleration, the engine malfunction light comes on? Fortunately for me, this time around the dealer didn't charge me that standard $75 diagnostic fee.
Another issue I just noticed: I hear a high whining sound from the speakers (even with radio off) at speeds above 60 mph. It isn't that loud, but it can be noticed to the trained ear. Not sure if this relates to the noise cancelling system or not (I incidentally had to get that replaced a while back due to the bass rumbling sound I would hear at lower speeds - thanks to Green Hybrid, I did the test and found my noise cancelling system to be faulty).
Anyone else out there hear a high-pitched whining sound that flucatuates with gas pedal pressure (i.e. the faster you go, the higher the pitch of the sound - again at speeds above 60 mph). Sorry to put 2 questions in one thread....
G.H. Contributor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
From: The Music City, Tennessee
Re: Engine Malfunction
I just took my 2005 HAH into the dealer for the second time for the Engine Malfunction light (this occurred in Oct 2008 as well). My issue seems to be similiar with others. If I need to accelerate rather hard during a short merge on the interstate, the Engine Malfunction light comes on (at least it did 2 times now). The dealer found a misfire code was erroneously appearing as the engine was not misfiring even though the engine malfunction light was on.
My issue is that when that light is on, the ECO will not function properly either since the computer believes that there is/was a misfire when there isn't one.
Has anyone else seen this with their HAH? When you give it hard acceleration, the engine malfunction light comes on? Fortunately for me, this time around the dealer didn't charge me that standard $75 diagnostic fee.
Another issue I just noticed: I hear a high whining sound from the speakers (even with radio off) at speeds above 60 mph. It isn't that loud, but it can be noticed to the trained ear. Not sure if this relates to the noise cancelling system or not (I incidentally had to get that replaced a while back due to the bass rumbling sound I would hear at lower speeds - thanks to Green Hybrid, I did the test and found my noise cancelling system to be faulty).
Anyone else out there hear a high-pitched whining sound that flucatuates with gas pedal pressure (i.e. the faster you go, the higher the pitch of the sound - again at speeds above 60 mph). Sorry to put 2 questions in one thread....
My issue is that when that light is on, the ECO will not function properly either since the computer believes that there is/was a misfire when there isn't one.
Has anyone else seen this with their HAH? When you give it hard acceleration, the engine malfunction light comes on? Fortunately for me, this time around the dealer didn't charge me that standard $75 diagnostic fee.
Another issue I just noticed: I hear a high whining sound from the speakers (even with radio off) at speeds above 60 mph. It isn't that loud, but it can be noticed to the trained ear. Not sure if this relates to the noise cancelling system or not (I incidentally had to get that replaced a while back due to the bass rumbling sound I would hear at lower speeds - thanks to Green Hybrid, I did the test and found my noise cancelling system to be faulty).
Anyone else out there hear a high-pitched whining sound that flucatuates with gas pedal pressure (i.e. the faster you go, the higher the pitch of the sound - again at speeds above 60 mph). Sorry to put 2 questions in one thread....
I have the 2007 HAH and have not had any of the Problems you mention.
Perhaps some others here will Reply.......
Take Care,
Terry
