What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
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Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
RayP: regarding the anti-bounce algorithm. What I see is that its averaging interval seems to be about 5 or maybe 10 minutes (I haven't timed it) to reach full after filling up from near empty. Somehow MTE needs to know the fuel level in the tank.
This timing interval is short enough to not necessarily interfere with a MTE calc using some kind of fuel flow. Would depend on what Ford thought when they did the software, but I believe you're probably right in saying Ford would not have set up MTE that way.
So, I don't necessarily see it as incompatible but will have to watch the response of the MTE reading after such a fillup to see how it responds. If it changes slowly as level goes up... there's a relation. I'll just have to look.
Remember that if you turn the engine off at fillup, which I don't always do, the reset of the fuel level is automatic on restart and you won't see anything on the MTE, it'll reset with the new fuel level.
You would have to leave the engine on to see something on the MTE, if its even there, as the new fuel level slowly resets according to the anti-bounce algorithm. The algorithm interprets a fillup as a big bounce.
Another check you might do is to fill the tank with the engine off, start the engine, let it cycle off, then reset the MPG calc and drive off on the battery. With the engine off you'll see a 99.9 MPG when you start to move on just the battery. Then check the MTE and see how it responds with this indicated MPG.
Maybe you can do 99.9 MPG X 15 Gallons = 1500 MTE! If you do take a pic of the readout and post it, you'll wow the hyper-miling crowd!
I'm away from the FEH, so if you do see something post it. I won't have anything to report for awhile.
This timing interval is short enough to not necessarily interfere with a MTE calc using some kind of fuel flow. Would depend on what Ford thought when they did the software, but I believe you're probably right in saying Ford would not have set up MTE that way.
So, I don't necessarily see it as incompatible but will have to watch the response of the MTE reading after such a fillup to see how it responds. If it changes slowly as level goes up... there's a relation. I'll just have to look.
Remember that if you turn the engine off at fillup, which I don't always do, the reset of the fuel level is automatic on restart and you won't see anything on the MTE, it'll reset with the new fuel level.
You would have to leave the engine on to see something on the MTE, if its even there, as the new fuel level slowly resets according to the anti-bounce algorithm. The algorithm interprets a fillup as a big bounce.
Another check you might do is to fill the tank with the engine off, start the engine, let it cycle off, then reset the MPG calc and drive off on the battery. With the engine off you'll see a 99.9 MPG when you start to move on just the battery. Then check the MTE and see how it responds with this indicated MPG.
Maybe you can do 99.9 MPG X 15 Gallons = 1500 MTE! If you do take a pic of the readout and post it, you'll wow the hyper-miling crowd!
I'm away from the FEH, so if you do see something post it. I won't have anything to report for awhile.
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From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
Resetting the MPG DISPLAY does NOT delete the internal memory.
FACT. PROVEN. OBVIOUS to most everyone.
The more you read, the more you will find out how little time and effort Bill has put into learning how his FEH works. He likes theories... He's also in not in very good touch with reality..... sigh......
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Posts: 863
Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
When I reset my MPG counter (after discovering that I could) and with the engine off but the FEH on, and then moved (on the battery) the readout went immediately to 99.9 from the zero reading that came from resetting it.
Again just reporting what I observed. I just didn't happen to select MTE to see if it changed along with the MPG readout.
The readout for MPG then behaved like its register had been zeroed out. It came down from the 99.9 reading progressively, settled out around 31.0 for a bit and then came down to the expected value of about 28 or so for around town driving. Took a few miles.
Say what you want about "being established," I was just reporting what I observed.
Try it yourself.
In my experience when people use strong words without giving any technical justification, they really don't have a clue, they're just trying to use vehemence to convince.
Frequently some folks get so close to their digital info they miss the big flick. Does anyone really care whether their MPG is 35.372 or maybe 35.4 is good enough?
Go look for yourself at how your readout responds.
Again just reporting what I observed. I just didn't happen to select MTE to see if it changed along with the MPG readout.
The readout for MPG then behaved like its register had been zeroed out. It came down from the 99.9 reading progressively, settled out around 31.0 for a bit and then came down to the expected value of about 28 or so for around town driving. Took a few miles.
Say what you want about "being established," I was just reporting what I observed.
Try it yourself.
In my experience when people use strong words without giving any technical justification, they really don't have a clue, they're just trying to use vehemence to convince.
Frequently some folks get so close to their digital info they miss the big flick. Does anyone really care whether their MPG is 35.372 or maybe 35.4 is good enough?
Go look for yourself at how your readout responds.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 895
From: Los Angeles
Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
When I reset my MPG counter (after discovering that I could) and with the engine off but the FEH on, and then moved (on the battery) the readout went immediately to 99.9 from the zero reading that came from resetting it.
Again just reporting what I observed. I just didn't happen to select MTE to see if it changed along with the MPG readout.
The readout for MPG then behaved like its register had been zeroed out. It came down from the 99.9 reading progressively, settled out around 31.0 for a bit and then came down to the expected value of about 28 or so for around town driving. Took a few miles.
Say what you want about "being established," I was just reporting what I observed.
Try it yourself.
In my experience when people use strong words without giving any technical justification, they really don't have a clue, they're just trying to use vehemence to convince.
Frequently some folks get so close to their digital info they miss the big flick. Does anyone really care whether their MPG is 35.372 or maybe 35.4 is good enough?
Go look for yourself at how your readout responds.
Again just reporting what I observed. I just didn't happen to select MTE to see if it changed along with the MPG readout.
The readout for MPG then behaved like its register had been zeroed out. It came down from the 99.9 reading progressively, settled out around 31.0 for a bit and then came down to the expected value of about 28 or so for around town driving. Took a few miles.
Say what you want about "being established," I was just reporting what I observed.
Try it yourself.
In my experience when people use strong words without giving any technical justification, they really don't have a clue, they're just trying to use vehemence to convince.
Frequently some folks get so close to their digital info they miss the big flick. Does anyone really care whether their MPG is 35.372 or maybe 35.4 is good enough?
Go look for yourself at how your readout responds.
But it has nothing to do with MTE, as I think you must know...
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Posts: 720
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Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
I just filled up two days ago and I am 100% sure that resetting the instant MPG display will do nothing to change the MTE display. I have the Navi (for MPG display) and the LCD for MTE. I watch both as my two main selectable displays so I'm pretty keen on them not being directly linked (in the short term). I reset the Navi MPG at fill-up for most tanks but there have been times where I got a few miles outside the gas station (usually with a great in-town MPG section at 50+MPG) before I reset the Navi and it never changed the MTE. My MTE after the last fill-up was 523miles and the Navi displayed 37.3MPG (always a few MPG optimistic) when I reset it.
I'd also like to report that I can drop my MTE by 3-5 miles in less than a minute if I do a good, hard acceleration or two. What I can't remember is ever seeing the MTE increase outside of a fill-up (or an on/off cycle). I'll have to pay more attention to whether MTE ever increases while on-the-go or if the system just holds the number at XXX MTE until the actual number catches up. Obviously it goes down toward zero as you drive but would it ever go up if you're improving your long term MPG substantially? If so, I expect it would be more noticeable at the beginning of a full tank since the fuel side of the equation/multiplier is larger (right, Bill?).
The Navi MPG will not display a higher than 59.9MPG, after that it displays MAX.
I'd also like to report that I can drop my MTE by 3-5 miles in less than a minute if I do a good, hard acceleration or two. What I can't remember is ever seeing the MTE increase outside of a fill-up (or an on/off cycle). I'll have to pay more attention to whether MTE ever increases while on-the-go or if the system just holds the number at XXX MTE until the actual number catches up. Obviously it goes down toward zero as you drive but would it ever go up if you're improving your long term MPG substantially? If so, I expect it would be more noticeable at the beginning of a full tank since the fuel side of the equation/multiplier is larger (right, Bill?).
The Navi MPG will not display a higher than 59.9MPG, after that it displays MAX.
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Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
I can confirm with 100% certainty it does go up while driving.
I have seen it do this too many times to count.
Such as right after towing, then not towing, it will go up while driving.
Or such as filling up at 10,000 ft in the Rockies, and driving 2 hours downhill, it will go up while driving.
If you go back far enough in the posts, you will find several persons who will confirm this also.
I have seen it do this too many times to count.
Such as right after towing, then not towing, it will go up while driving.
Or such as filling up at 10,000 ft in the Rockies, and driving 2 hours downhill, it will go up while driving.
If you go back far enough in the posts, you will find several persons who will confirm this also.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 67
Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
Well, I finally ran the tank down to empty for the first time. Absolutely nothing happened! No extra light or warning, and the MTE just stayed at 0 after that. I only went a mile or so after MTE=0 because I was near my favorite gas station, and my fill-up was 13.65 Gal. That's very consistent with what I've heard in this thread, and with what I've seen in the past from the same station and pump, ie 13.1 Gal with MTE=20. On this tank I hit my alltime high of 38.3 mpg. The readout was 40.0 for the tank. It always seems to err a bit on the high side.
RayP
RayP
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 863
Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
I'll go take a pic of the MPG display after resetting while on the battery, which I observed to be 99.9 when I did it just a few weeks ago. I'll also take one of the MTE number at the same time & I'll post these pics. Note that my 06FEH does not have the Nav display, I'm referring to the basic level display in all of my postings. It'll take a few days as I'm apart from my FEH.
They'll be whatever they'll be. When I made the comment about 1500 MTE I was doing so tongue in cheek... Just didn't expect I'd get the vituperance I saw. What a joke.
For gpsman1:
Have you downloaded and decompiled the software in your FEH?
Have you spoken with the Ford engineer(s) that programmed the FEH software to find out the formulas they employed.?
Have you obtained a printed copy of these formulas from an official Ford FEH organ?
If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, then please post this info for the rest of us to see.
If the answer to these questions is no, then your posting of "facts" is not accurate. Your postings are educated guesses based on observation. The fact that they are educated and based on extensive observation makes them probably a pretty good assessment of something but they remain guesses nonetheless.
Except when I'm tongue in cheek (& I would have thought that the 1500 MTE remark would have brought a chuckle from nearly all of us), I advertise my postings that are similar to yours as inference or speculation. I consider that a necessary honesty.
Your postings of such things as fact, if you cannot answer "yes" to one of the above questions, are simply dishonest.
Get over it.
They'll be whatever they'll be. When I made the comment about 1500 MTE I was doing so tongue in cheek... Just didn't expect I'd get the vituperance I saw. What a joke.
For gpsman1:
Have you downloaded and decompiled the software in your FEH?
Have you spoken with the Ford engineer(s) that programmed the FEH software to find out the formulas they employed.?
Have you obtained a printed copy of these formulas from an official Ford FEH organ?
If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, then please post this info for the rest of us to see.
If the answer to these questions is no, then your posting of "facts" is not accurate. Your postings are educated guesses based on observation. The fact that they are educated and based on extensive observation makes them probably a pretty good assessment of something but they remain guesses nonetheless.
Except when I'm tongue in cheek (& I would have thought that the 1500 MTE remark would have brought a chuckle from nearly all of us), I advertise my postings that are similar to yours as inference or speculation. I consider that a necessary honesty.
Your postings of such things as fact, if you cannot answer "yes" to one of the above questions, are simply dishonest.
Get over it.
Last edited by Bill Winney; Sep 19, 2009 at 05:55 PM.
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Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
I'll go take a pic of the MPG display after resetting while on the battery, which I observed to be 99.9 when I did it just a few weeks ago. I'll also take one of the MTE number at the same time & I'll post these pics.
Don't bother. No need. Or was that a "Joke"?
For gpsman1:
Have you downloaded and decompiled the software in your FEH?
No. But one of my best friends with a M.A. in Electrical Engineering and 20+ years experience with high voltage / high power systems has, and he's shared most of his "discoveries" with me. Needless to say, most were on more important aspects than the basic MTE display...
Have you spoken with the Ford engineer(s) that programmed the FEH software?
Yes. But it was before I knew some of the right questions to ask.
Have you obtained a printed copy of these formulas from an official Ford FEH organ?
No. Ford employees are strickly prohibited from doing so. I'm surpised you wouldn't have known that.
If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, then please post this info for the rest of us to see.
Your postings are educated guesses based on observation. The fact that they are educated and based on extensive observation makes them probably a pretty good assessment of something but they remain guesses nonetheless.
I told you all. Bill does not believe in Gravity. He guesses it is there, but can't prove it.
Your postings of such things as fact, if you cannot answer "yes" to one of the above questions, are simply dishonest.
Get over it.
Don't bother. No need. Or was that a "Joke"?
For gpsman1:
Have you downloaded and decompiled the software in your FEH?
No. But one of my best friends with a M.A. in Electrical Engineering and 20+ years experience with high voltage / high power systems has, and he's shared most of his "discoveries" with me. Needless to say, most were on more important aspects than the basic MTE display...
Have you spoken with the Ford engineer(s) that programmed the FEH software?
Yes. But it was before I knew some of the right questions to ask.
Have you obtained a printed copy of these formulas from an official Ford FEH organ?
No. Ford employees are strickly prohibited from doing so. I'm surpised you wouldn't have known that.
If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, then please post this info for the rest of us to see.
Your postings are educated guesses based on observation. The fact that they are educated and based on extensive observation makes them probably a pretty good assessment of something but they remain guesses nonetheless.
I told you all. Bill does not believe in Gravity. He guesses it is there, but can't prove it.
Your postings of such things as fact, if you cannot answer "yes" to one of the above questions, are simply dishonest.
Get over it.
( Not a "fact" but an acute observation. )
Last edited by gpsman1; Sep 19, 2009 at 06:18 PM.
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Re: What happens when Miles to E hits 0?
I've been burning E85 the past 6 tanks.
( Even got a tank for 85 cents a gallon in MN last week. )
Anyhow, mostly county roads ( 55 MPH ) this tank, and my tank average is at 27.3 on the FEH, which is about 3 optimistic, so real MPG is about 24.3. This tank is better than the previous, which was mostly 65 MPH, so yes, the MTE is under-estimating.
I'm 2/3 down, 1/3 left on the current tank.
Then, I entered a small town with low speed limits so I could do lots of EV driving... mostly EV driving, in fact.
When MTE went from 91 to 90 MTE, I reset the trip odometer.
90 MTE 0 trip
89 MTE 1.4 trip
88 MTE 2.9 trip
87 MTE 4.9 trip
86 MTE 7.0 trip
Most interesting to me is, the interval was not constant, even over this very short distance.
My tank MPG went up only 0.2 MPG in those 7 miles of mostly EV.
I was doing my best to P&G and probably used gas at about the 25 MPG rate for 1.5 miles out of 7.0.
Take away from that what you will.
Additional thoughts:
I think you'll agree that any long term average would have changed less than my 2/3 tank average did.
I think you'll also agree, that 1.5 miles at 25 MPG ( 0.06 gallons ) would have changed the tank level by an almost immeasurable amount.
Edit: After parking about 8 hours, I got back in, and within a quarter mile was back on the highway at 55 MPH. The MTE was dropping 1 per 1 mile on the odometer. So if the car is "smart" enough to look at instant fuel consumption, how come it is not smart enough to not lower the MTE while you are in EV mode????
( Even got a tank for 85 cents a gallon in MN last week. )
Anyhow, mostly county roads ( 55 MPH ) this tank, and my tank average is at 27.3 on the FEH, which is about 3 optimistic, so real MPG is about 24.3. This tank is better than the previous, which was mostly 65 MPH, so yes, the MTE is under-estimating.
I'm 2/3 down, 1/3 left on the current tank.
Then, I entered a small town with low speed limits so I could do lots of EV driving... mostly EV driving, in fact.
When MTE went from 91 to 90 MTE, I reset the trip odometer.
90 MTE 0 trip
89 MTE 1.4 trip
88 MTE 2.9 trip
87 MTE 4.9 trip
86 MTE 7.0 trip
Most interesting to me is, the interval was not constant, even over this very short distance.
My tank MPG went up only 0.2 MPG in those 7 miles of mostly EV.
I was doing my best to P&G and probably used gas at about the 25 MPG rate for 1.5 miles out of 7.0.
Take away from that what you will.
Additional thoughts:
I think you'll agree that any long term average would have changed less than my 2/3 tank average did.
I think you'll also agree, that 1.5 miles at 25 MPG ( 0.06 gallons ) would have changed the tank level by an almost immeasurable amount.
Edit: After parking about 8 hours, I got back in, and within a quarter mile was back on the highway at 55 MPH. The MTE was dropping 1 per 1 mile on the odometer. So if the car is "smart" enough to look at instant fuel consumption, how come it is not smart enough to not lower the MTE while you are in EV mode????
Last edited by gpsman1; Sep 23, 2009 at 10:33 AM.
