We need someone with the hybrid/navigation/radio headunit or the newest scangauge II firmware to repeat the experiement I did last month. Except, this/these individuals can report on the battery SOC prior to and after the experiment on whether the HV battery gets recharged with the engine block charger. I will repeat this myself after I obtain the newest scangauge II firmware-group buy?

 

The jump start procedure, and the Engine Block Heater / HV battery heater are unrelated, and you should not confuse the two.

The built-in jump-start procedure can send on the order of 400-500 watts to the back from the front 12v battery.

The 120v AC "heater" can only send 25 watts to the rear.
So we have 3 possibilities:
A) all of the 25w goes into some charger system
B) all of the 25w goes into some heating system
C) some of the 25w goes into heating and charging at the same time

Letter "C" sounds least likely to me. 25w is not much to start with.
Splitting it 2 ways makes it very, very, weak, indeed.

Also, keep in mind that your "tech" ( in warm Florida no less ) is just reading the same descriptions of parts we are reading. All he can "agree to" is there is a part in the parts list called "Engine Block Heater / Charger Assembly". We all knew that already.
Keep in mind the system is smart enough to only charge when needed, so it makes sense it would only heat when needed. Of course charging quickly generates internal heat all by itself in the process. These cells are durable, but they are not very efficient. Perhaps that's a trade off.
-John

 

........ I'll be looking for Sears to put their best Die Hard on sale in Sundays newspaper this weekend. I've had good luck with their warranty in the past.

Traditional car batteries are designed to provide high current to start the engine. This design takes away from the battery's storage capacity and life. I think a deep cycle battery as used on off grid power and RV power systems would be a better low voltage battery for a hybrid!

 

David, I've given some thought about that modification of going to a deep cycle also awhile back. Given the fact that the FEH/MMH was design to use a standard automotive battery, that's what I going to replace it with. Not sure how a deep cycle battery would work with the jump start procedure either.

The stock battery specs is what I feel Ford Engineers designed the proper cranking amps required to handle the BCM, PCM, and eCVT loads during start-up with the HV battery and the starter/generator motor. Besides that, I don't Ford using any excuse to try and void my hybrid warranty.

GaryG

 

Ford may have gone with a standard automotive battery because of availability.

 

Ford dropped the cranking amps to only 500 which is quite low. Just checked Costco and they didn't stock that battery (I think it was a 96R). I'll know more when I go by Sears tomorrow if this battery is anything standard. The battery has 3 major function:

1. storage of electricity for later use

2. voltage stabilizer for the electrical system

3. temporary power when electrical loads exceed the DC/DC converter output current.

One of the reasons I'm going a head with a 12 volt battery change before I see real problems, is because this may help my MPG average. If the DC/DC converter is working overtime keeping the electrical loads and the 12V battery full, this may reduce that load and provide more storage to the HV battery for EV use. It seems when my standard automobile batteries have gone bad in the past, sometimes it's quick, but more times it's slow and takes a while for the process. You know, it just doesn't turn the engine over as fast like a new battery does.

Lately I've noticed a drop in the HV battery while the ICE was running more and more. I monitor the HV battery all the time and use the SG11 for other gauges, because SoC is so important to me for maintaining good MPG.

GaryG

 

I repeated the experiment today and the results are reflected in the word file attachment. In summary, I drove my vehicle today along a path I can EV alot in and returned home with a 42.something HV SOC. I then let the key stay in "position 3/run" for almost one hour and the scangauge II SOC declined to 34.8 within 30 minutes and remained there for 30 more minutes. I plugged in the engine block heater at around 1:15pm and returned at approximatelyu 4:05pm. The HV SOC did not increase during the almost three hours of engine block heater plug in. Your thoughts?

 

How did you determine the 25W number? There's really no point in having something that low in wattage in a plug-in. If true, it definitely rules out any charging, as NiMH batteries really shouldn't be trickle charged. Any charging would have to draw at least 180W or so. And for heating, well, 25W would not help much at all in really cold climates, for which it was designed.

 

Heres a thought. Maybe the "charger" charges the 12 v battery so you may do a jump start if the HV is low. after all its exposed to colder air.

 

Based on the volatge ( 24v ) and the wire size ( 20 gauge which can carry no more than 1.5A without melting ) this gives it a carrying capacity of about 25 watts. Could be up to 36 watts, but nothing else in this car is pushed to the max. so it is very likely this is kept to ~25 watts for safety.

It looks like:

1.) this plug does not charge any battery with power
2.) the extra wire leads are used to "warm" the HV battery only
3.) the FEH does not "warm" the HV battery without this plug
4.) a warmer battery can put out more current than a cold one, so warming a "borderline" battery has the same net effect as charging it.
5.) I posted this info 2 years ago! ( Without the 24v part that I just learned )

I have said for 2 years that the FEH has a HV battery heater.
For 2 years, GaryG and others have said there is no such heater.

Well, there is a HV battery heater, but you cannot use it without this plug-in accessory, so 90% of drivers have a heater that is never used, and only a fraction of FEH owners have the necessary plug to use the built-in heater.

Doing a quick search for "electric blankets" the kind you would use at home in bed, I found the wattage ranges from 40w to 100w. 40w being for twin or travel size and 100w being for queen or king size.

40w will warm you quite nicely in about 15 minutes.
And every blanket has a "High - Med - Low" setting, and some even have 10 settings from high to low. 25 watts for a medium or low setting sounds right on the money. 25 watts is about what the FEH uses with the plug.

Also, 25w would warm your bed from 60's or 70's to the 80's or 90's in 15 minutes. How many people plug-in their block heater for 15 minutes?
It's not only the watts that are important. It is also the watt-hours.

A 25w battery heater could warm a 0'F battery to 60'F very easily in 4-6 hours time. The battery is in a confined space. A place that is going to trap the heat and not dissipate it very fast. I am going to order one. But it looks like we now know what this does.
It is an electric heater for your HV Battery.
-John

P.S. Newer, modern electric blankets also use 24v. Coincidence?