Shifty Shifter
#1
12-02-2008, 08:45 PM
Shifty Shifter
OK guys.. ran into a strange incident with my '05 FEH 4X4...
The wife has been complaining about the key being hard to get out of the ignition the last few weeks. It never acted up for me until last week, but we noticed that when the key wouldn't release, the "P" on the display wasn't circled either... definitely a shifter related issue.
Anyways a Ford tech told me the shifters are problematic on these, and next time the key won't release, unplugging the shift interlock connector will release the key, and if/when that happens the only way to fix it is to replace the shifter... (Just shy of $500 list for the part).
Now.. I studied the wiring diagram, and realized that when it is in Park, the ground circuit for the ignition key 'lock' gets disrupted, and it releases the key. I was simply going to install a small switch inside the center storage compartment to kill the ground circuit so we can remove the key when it's acting up. I figured this would be an indefinite 'repair' until I could afford a new shifter.
Anyways, I removed the top center console cover (legos anyone?), unplugged the shift interlock connector and in the process yanked on the wires a bit. I had the car running at that time (for heat as it's cold outside) and when I did so, STOP SAFELY NOW appeared... beeping like mad, and the engine died. WOULD NOT RESTART.
I also noticed I was 'off' a gear... P was never circled, It displayed N when in Revers, D when in Neutral, L when in drive, etc...
After verifying I didn't damage any wiring, I decided to yank the shifter... and after doing so I noticed the screws for the Shifter Sensor (Transmission Range Sensor) mounted on the left side of the shifter were loose! When I yanked on the wires, it must have pulled the sensor out of adjustment....
Anyways... I played it 'by ear' readjusting it (made sure there was a little wiggle room in each gear before the display moved positions), tightened the screws, reinstalled the shifter, reinstalled the center console top... and all has been well ever since.
It took two drive cycles to get the wrench light off (and also to get rid of the 'regen braking disabled' warning), and another two days for the Check Engine light to go out... and the key now comes out every time!
How those screws got loose is beyond me.. maybe the shifter was replaced before we got it and.. well who knows...
And if I develop the key issue ever again, I know exactly which wire to cut and wire into a switch for an interim repair... but I'm pretty confident now that it won't be necessary.
I should add that I had to drive it to work before I could actually tighten the screws, as I didn't have any 'security torx' bits at home... might be worth checking if you end up with similar symptoms.
The wife has been complaining about the key being hard to get out of the ignition the last few weeks. It never acted up for me until last week, but we noticed that when the key wouldn't release, the "P" on the display wasn't circled either... definitely a shifter related issue.
Anyways a Ford tech told me the shifters are problematic on these, and next time the key won't release, unplugging the shift interlock connector will release the key, and if/when that happens the only way to fix it is to replace the shifter... (Just shy of $500 list for the part).
Now.. I studied the wiring diagram, and realized that when it is in Park, the ground circuit for the ignition key 'lock' gets disrupted, and it releases the key. I was simply going to install a small switch inside the center storage compartment to kill the ground circuit so we can remove the key when it's acting up. I figured this would be an indefinite 'repair' until I could afford a new shifter.
Anyways, I removed the top center console cover (legos anyone?), unplugged the shift interlock connector and in the process yanked on the wires a bit. I had the car running at that time (for heat as it's cold outside) and when I did so, STOP SAFELY NOW appeared... beeping like mad, and the engine died. WOULD NOT RESTART.
I also noticed I was 'off' a gear... P was never circled, It displayed N when in Revers, D when in Neutral, L when in drive, etc...
After verifying I didn't damage any wiring, I decided to yank the shifter... and after doing so I noticed the screws for the Shifter Sensor (Transmission Range Sensor) mounted on the left side of the shifter were loose! When I yanked on the wires, it must have pulled the sensor out of adjustment....
Anyways... I played it 'by ear' readjusting it (made sure there was a little wiggle room in each gear before the display moved positions), tightened the screws, reinstalled the shifter, reinstalled the center console top... and all has been well ever since.
It took two drive cycles to get the wrench light off (and also to get rid of the 'regen braking disabled' warning), and another two days for the Check Engine light to go out... and the key now comes out every time!
How those screws got loose is beyond me.. maybe the shifter was replaced before we got it and.. well who knows...
And if I develop the key issue ever again, I know exactly which wire to cut and wire into a switch for an interim repair... but I'm pretty confident now that it won't be necessary.
I should add that I had to drive it to work before I could actually tighten the screws, as I didn't have any 'security torx' bits at home... might be worth checking if you end up with similar symptoms.
#2
12-03-2008, 07:29 AM
Re: Shifty Shifter
The only issue with your interim repair is.... after using your switch to get your key out... is your FEH actually in PARK? If it isn't then the parking pawl isn't engaged and the car is essentially in neutral, and ready to roll down any hill you are on. And you can't rely on the parking brake. Its just not strong enough to hold this vehicle on any sort of incline without the parking pawl.
#3
12-03-2008, 08:24 AM
Re: Shifty Shifter
Putting any load on the parking pawl is just asking to snap it off. In which case making the parking brake the emergency backup.
#4
12-03-2008, 11:27 AM
Re: Shifty Shifter
I think you have that backwards. The brake should be doing ALL the hill-holding WITHOUT the parking pawl having to do any at all. Whenever I park on a hill, I hold the service brakes, set the parking brake, put the car in neutral and release the service brake. This ensures that the parking brake is holding the car. Only then will I put it in park where the parking pawl is there as an emergency backup.
Putting any load on the parking pawl is just asking to snap it off. In which case making the parking brake the emergency backup.
Putting any load on the parking pawl is just asking to snap it off. In which case making the parking brake the emergency backup.
I've tried things exactly as you describe, service brakes, parking brake, put in park, release service brake and... she will creep backward as I release the service brake until she touches the pawl. Its been adjusted so many times its not funny but that parking brake just seems to be undersized for the weight of the vehicle. I've heard others with the same issue.
#5
12-04-2008, 06:10 PM
Re: Shifty Shifter
By law the parking brake must be able to hold the vehicle staionary for at least five minutes on a 30% grade, however I believe this also includes the Parking Pawl mechanism (IF the key cannot be removed unless it is engaged):
S5.2 Parking brake system. Each vehicle shall be manufactured with a parking brake system of a friction type with a solely mechanical means to retain engagement, which shall under the conditions of S6, when tested according to the procedures specified in S7, meet the requirements specified in S5.2.1, S5.2.2, or S5.2.3 as appropriate, with the system engaged--
(a) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less, with a force applied to the control not to exceed 125 pounds for a foot-operated system and 90 pounds for a hand-operated system; and
(b) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR greater than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), with a force applied to the control not to exceed 150 pounds for a foot-operated system and 125 pounds for a hand-operated system.
(a) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, with a force applied to the control not to exceed 125 pounds for a foot–operated system and 90 pounds for a hand–operated system; and
(b) In the case of a school bus with a GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs. with a force applied to the control not to exceed 150 pounds for a foot–operated system and 125 pounds for a hand–operated system.
S5.2.1. Except as provided in §5.2.2, the parking brake system on a passenger car and on a school bus with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary (to the limit of traction on the braked wheels) for 5 minutes in both a forward and reverse direction on a 30 percent grade.
S5.2.2 A vehicle of a type described in S5.2.1 at the option of the manufacturer may meet the requirements of S5.2.2.1, S5.2.2.2, and S5.2.2.3 instead of the requirements of S5.2.1 if:
(a) The vehicle has a transmission or transmission control which incorporates a parking mechanism, and
(b) The parking mechanism must be engaged before the ignition key can be removed.
S5.2.2.1 The vehicle's parking brake and parking mechanism, when both are engaged, shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary (to the limit of traction of the braked wheels) for 5 minutes, in both forward and reverse directions, on a 30 percent grade.
S5.2.2.2 The vehicle's parking brake, with the parking mechanism not engaged, shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary for 5 minutes, in both forward and reverse directions, on a 20 percent grade.
S5.2.2.3 With the parking mechanism engaged and the parking brake not engaged, the parking mechanism shall not disengage or fracture in a manner permitting vehicle movement, when the vehicle is impacted at each end, on a level surface, by a barrier moving at 2½ mph.
Now, keep in mind the bypass has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the mechanical activation of the Parking Pawl (although my wife was sure to set the parking brake anyway), and I even verified that it was in fact in Park by rocking the car while it was acting up. The 'bypass' is for ONLY the ground circuit for the key release solenoid in the Shift Interlock system, having absolutely nothing to do with the shifter itself.
Basically, putting the shifter in PARK opens the ground circuit for the key release solenoid, and my intent was to wire a switch into this ground circuit between the key release solenoid and the shifter... essentially doing the same exact thing that putting the shifter in Park should be doing. Yes, theoretically you could flip this switch, and then turn the key into the LOCK position while driving with the Shifter in Drive and get into a wreck, but come on... but you'd have to be pretty naive to put yourself in that situation.
You have to realize there is a mechanical cable that attaches the shifter to the transmission, to activate the Parking Pawl mechanism when the shifter is physically in the PARK position. This has absolutely nothing to do with the electrical side of things, and has nothing to do with P being circled or not... simply put.. if the shifter is physically in the PARK position, the Pawl will engage (assuming the cable or mechanical connections aren't damaged).
TeeSter, you'd be surprised how strong these Parking Pawls really are. They are able to withstand several times the vehicle's weight, assuming 100% of it isn't slammed into the mechanism at once. By applying the Parking Brake, you're allowing for a more gradual load being applied to the Pawl, rather than bouncing the vehicle's weight on it which is a good thing.
Luckily around here, we don't have too much in the way of steep hills, especially for parking.
S5.2 Parking brake system. Each vehicle shall be manufactured with a parking brake system of a friction type with a solely mechanical means to retain engagement, which shall under the conditions of S6, when tested according to the procedures specified in S7, meet the requirements specified in S5.2.1, S5.2.2, or S5.2.3 as appropriate, with the system engaged--
(a) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less, with a force applied to the control not to exceed 125 pounds for a foot-operated system and 90 pounds for a hand-operated system; and
(b) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR greater than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), with a force applied to the control not to exceed 150 pounds for a foot-operated system and 125 pounds for a hand-operated system.
(a) In the case of a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less, with a force applied to the control not to exceed 125 pounds for a foot–operated system and 90 pounds for a hand–operated system; and
(b) In the case of a school bus with a GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs. with a force applied to the control not to exceed 150 pounds for a foot–operated system and 125 pounds for a hand–operated system.
S5.2.1. Except as provided in §5.2.2, the parking brake system on a passenger car and on a school bus with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary (to the limit of traction on the braked wheels) for 5 minutes in both a forward and reverse direction on a 30 percent grade.
S5.2.2 A vehicle of a type described in S5.2.1 at the option of the manufacturer may meet the requirements of S5.2.2.1, S5.2.2.2, and S5.2.2.3 instead of the requirements of S5.2.1 if:
(a) The vehicle has a transmission or transmission control which incorporates a parking mechanism, and
(b) The parking mechanism must be engaged before the ignition key can be removed.
S5.2.2.1 The vehicle's parking brake and parking mechanism, when both are engaged, shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary (to the limit of traction of the braked wheels) for 5 minutes, in both forward and reverse directions, on a 30 percent grade.
S5.2.2.2 The vehicle's parking brake, with the parking mechanism not engaged, shall be capable of holding the vehicle stationary for 5 minutes, in both forward and reverse directions, on a 20 percent grade.
S5.2.2.3 With the parking mechanism engaged and the parking brake not engaged, the parking mechanism shall not disengage or fracture in a manner permitting vehicle movement, when the vehicle is impacted at each end, on a level surface, by a barrier moving at 2½ mph.
Now, keep in mind the bypass has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the mechanical activation of the Parking Pawl (although my wife was sure to set the parking brake anyway), and I even verified that it was in fact in Park by rocking the car while it was acting up. The 'bypass' is for ONLY the ground circuit for the key release solenoid in the Shift Interlock system, having absolutely nothing to do with the shifter itself.
Basically, putting the shifter in PARK opens the ground circuit for the key release solenoid, and my intent was to wire a switch into this ground circuit between the key release solenoid and the shifter... essentially doing the same exact thing that putting the shifter in Park should be doing. Yes, theoretically you could flip this switch, and then turn the key into the LOCK position while driving with the Shifter in Drive and get into a wreck, but come on... but you'd have to be pretty naive to put yourself in that situation.
You have to realize there is a mechanical cable that attaches the shifter to the transmission, to activate the Parking Pawl mechanism when the shifter is physically in the PARK position. This has absolutely nothing to do with the electrical side of things, and has nothing to do with P being circled or not... simply put.. if the shifter is physically in the PARK position, the Pawl will engage (assuming the cable or mechanical connections aren't damaged).
TeeSter, you'd be surprised how strong these Parking Pawls really are. They are able to withstand several times the vehicle's weight, assuming 100% of it isn't slammed into the mechanism at once. By applying the Parking Brake, you're allowing for a more gradual load being applied to the Pawl, rather than bouncing the vehicle's weight on it which is a good thing.
Luckily around here, we don't have too much in the way of steep hills, especially for parking.
Last edited by Scahpe; 12-04-2008 at 06:15 PM.
#6
12-04-2008, 09:13 PM
Re: Shifty Shifter
Now, keep in mind the bypass has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the mechanical activation of the Parking Pawl (although my wife was sure to set the parking brake anyway), and I even verified that it was in fact in Park by rocking the car while it was acting up. The 'bypass' is for ONLY the ground circuit for the key release solenoid in the Shift Interlock system, having absolutely nothing to do with the shifter itself.
#7
12-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Re: Shifty Shifter
Nah it's all electrical.
And to add, it's starting to act up again.. not nearly as bad though. Apparently I disturbed something when I had the shifter out. I might yank it out again and see if i can disassemble it. I think the problem is in the button mechanism itself.. it almost acts like there's too much lube in there, and when it's cold out the lube gets thick and jams up the works...
I'll keep you guys posted.
And to add, it's starting to act up again.. not nearly as bad though. Apparently I disturbed something when I had the shifter out. I might yank it out again and see if i can disassemble it. I think the problem is in the button mechanism itself.. it almost acts like there's too much lube in there, and when it's cold out the lube gets thick and jams up the works...
I'll keep you guys posted.
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