I'm not an expert at this, but my uncle, which works for Ford and in fact, he was one of the original 100+ engineers that worked on the Escape Hybrid project told me not to shift into N when driving, he definately said it is not good, I will ask him more detail about it when I get a chance. He's very busy working on the Mazda Tribute Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid projects now.

 

That's interesting. At the FEH Experience, I asked four or five people about it (Including the test engineer, the guy who developed the drive gear, and a few others), and each said the same exact thing, 'It's software, not hardware. There's no difference between N,D, and L, so you can shift as much as you like between them without harming your vehicle.'

Anyway, I think I now know how I'm getting such better MPGs, I'm obviously warping reality somehow. Started with 301 MTE, drove 43 miles, had 286 MTE, drove 43 miles, had 266 MTE. (I also went from 34.4 MPG to 36.1 MPGs over that trip too...)

 

In the 2006 manual they specifically tell you not to use "N" in most circumstances. It doesn't claim its going to wreck the car. As I recall from memory the reason is that the generator is disengaged, therefore the HV battery cannot be charged so you are draining it by leaving it in "N" and reducing efficiency.

It doesn't say anything about "L" being bad. It does say that its not like a normal "L" in that it will not help you go up hills. Instead if I remember right they say "L" is of use going down hill by using the regenerative breaking to slow the vehicle.

Thats all from memory though.

 

Hi Teester

Just broke the 70mpg barrier for the FWD FEH for a little over 25 miles yesterday. Neutral was a big help using the Pulse & Glide (P&G) techique. It is true there is no regen going on in "N" and no ICE/generator charging while the FEH is at a stop. There was no charging problem as my trip was done with about 75% being in EV. Getting real close to getting double the EPA city for a round trip. Not bad for a Ford, not to mention a SUV. Pictures will be posted on http://www.cleanmpg.com/ of my scangauge data when I hit 72mpg or better. Ford should have offered a gauge that went over 60mpg.

Just a reminder, keep the scangauge out of dirrect sunlight as my screen went out till it cooled down and I unplugged and plugged it back in. A few of us on GreenMPG have had this happen.

GaryG

 

I think we need some ground rules for comparison, so we can compare apples to apples, and maybe input from members here can help.

Which is better and/or more impressive?
64.4 MPG for 21 miles?
55.8 MPG for 87 miles?
45.3 MPG for 721 miles?
( all the above were round-trips, so no net elevation change )

I can get 9999 MPG for 4 miles. Does that count for anything? ( all EV )
I can get 120 MPG for 18 miles. Does that count at all? ( all downhill )

What about 37 MPG at 10 below zero with 10% ethanol. Is that a record?
( ethanol and cold decrease MPG )

I hope you see what I'm getting at.
I'd like to see a friendly rule that "records" must be for at least 400 miles and be exact round trips. You must end where you started.
That would prevent people from coasting down a long hill just to make a "record". Know what I mean?
Whatcha think? Is that a good "rule"?
What about temperature? Should that be considered?
In general, between 60 and 80 degrees is "optimal", as no heat or A/C is required.
What about my 10 below zero winters or Texas 110' heat? Should that be factored in? Just questions!

FYI my last fill said 640 MTE which = 42 MPG which agrees closely with the SG and OSD!
- John
P.S. This is due in large part to the fact I'm in that 60-80 degree range now.

 

I can agree to that, with the alteration of a minimum 300 miles. If you look at the real mileage database, you'll see that a lot of the vehicles don't log over 400+ for every tank, and that 350 seems to be the closer average range for the FEHs tank data, myself included for a number of reasons.

Perhaps even, in friendly competition, have a temperature range as well. Best MPGs in -10, 90, and 60 degree weather.

 

just think of it this way. If you can nail 70 mpg on any segment and then CONTINUE to get 70 mpg on everywhere you go then that's pretty impressive in my books.

If you can remain your consistancy (like GaryG but in his case he's getting better!) then 70 mpg is pretty impressive nevertheless.

Why don't you other guys try? Why is only GaryG the only one trying? Are you guys that paranoid about "wrecking" your hybrid with N L and D shifts? Or is it lack of motivation or just non believers?

 

The FEH gas tank cannot determine your gas mileage on a few fillups. Over the past year, I may have thought I was getting X MPG and posted as such. After getting the scangauge and comparing readings of the Nav SYS, MTE and fillups at the gas pump, I feel the amount of fuel used is best found on the scangauge. Any data on MPG I posted before January of this year could have been way off. The pictures of my miles to empty would be the only thing for anyone to compare with.

As far as a record, no one has came up with a solid number that the FEH can get, but yesterday I hit a max for me so far. There are no hills to speak of here, but the reason for me using a round trip for a measurement is wind and traffic. The roads I took were ideal and the windows were all down which hurt a bit in a 10-15mph headwind. The longer the trip adds factors such as changes in conditions (stopslights, traffic, speed limits etc.). My test was under ideal conditions for the most part to see the MPG the FEH can get. Certainly, 20 miles in EV with many ICE STARTS for recharge is a gauge to compare my techniques too. Just learning to P&G brought my best 60mpg to close to 75mpg. Now I can factor in my commute on a daliy basis and use what I have learn to improve my tank averages.

If anyone wants to compare techniques their using to mine, consider my conditions first. Phil is right that I'm constantly looking for ways to improve, and have done pretty good with everyone's help. A lifetime MPG (lmpg) gauge would have helped give us all owning a FEH something to compare to other's with the same conditions. For now, the scangauge is the only gauge I can use to improve my MPG and compare my techniques. If anyone can push the FEH on a round trip of 20 miles or so to 70mpg, I'd like to hear about their technique to improve mine.

GaryG

 

I think a SG or even the built-in FE display is good enough and reliable enough to use as a basis to compare.

This is because it uses the RATE of fuel consumption, irregardless of the tank level.

I now know FOR SURE using the # of gallons you pump is NOT reliable.
I can be at MTE 0 and pump 13.5 gallons one day, and pump 17.5 gallons the next time. Over months and years, gallons used will be pretty darn good.

I just don't think "70 MPG for 20 miles" means much.
I can do that any day of the week, if I purposely seek out ideal conditions, and do it in the middle of the night when there is no traffic so I can "fool around" with speed and coasting and all that. And what about battery condition? Did it start fully charged and end drained? If you go 400 miles or more, the conditions of traffic, temperature, battery SOC, and terrain will all balance out, and you'll have a true representation of how you are driving.

400 miles is not too many Pravis Prime.... I think even 500 miles is reasonalble, since we are talking about "hypermiling". When you are talking about numbers in the top 1% of all drivers, those interested will be getting close to 700 mile tanks.

 

Some of us will never be HyperMilers! Although I agree that establishing standard rules of measurement is a help, it is difficult to apply. A few observations:

1. The database contains many half tanks, which reduced mpg potential due to carrying the extra weight of more fuel. I myself fillup when I can get the cheaper gas.

2. Gary is very skilled at driving and multitasking. I daresay that some of us here would be better served keeping our mind on the driving and conditions. I personally have found myself a bit distracted by the instruments and FE readings. One must develop a skill for doing all of the additional things that Gary does.

3. A winning strategy is to pick something out that Gary does and use that to try and increase mpg. Trying them all at once is not a good idea for less experienced drivers.

I appreciate what all of you contribute on this subject, and would encourage those of you that have these skills to keep working at it. The rest of us can apply selected parts of these strategies and save lots of money, while not creating additional risk on the road.

Thanks again