The Low Gear Advantage
#91
10-20-2005, 06:38 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
I've managed 40 mph in EV in my '06 AWD. Unfortunately, I don't have many truly flat areas to test with so it's hard to contribute meaningful input for distance travelled in EV mode. Due to the hilly conditions here in central CT, I don't use cruise much so I can't help there. My last couple of tanks had a significant decrease in MPG, which I had chalked up to decreasing air temps, but my current tank is back in line with what I had been getting before the temp started dropping so now I'm left scratching my head as to what happened?
#92
10-20-2005, 07:49 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Hi Gary G:
___You have to be careful with what the Ford engineers and managers said in regards to maximum FE. I do not know if you remember the story of the first guy to nail a 60.0 + segment in an Escape HEV but it was before it was released to the public. Mary Ann Wright told me the details as to how it was achieved last February and if I misquote any of it, forgive me
___A preesie of some regard folded in the mirrors, rolled up the windows in warmer temps, took it up to maybe 20 - 25 mph, and EV’ed the rest of the way down the 2 mile course. Today, 60.0 + around town can be had by anyone reading this thread and is both sustainable and real world if you have a slower (< 40 mph) all-city drive including stop and go’s. The Ford Engineer’s had/have no idea that this was achievable by any number of hypermilers here at GH and I have to wonder if they (Ford Engineers) are going to change there tune about driving in D w/ ICE-Off after any let up of the accelerator at < 40 mph (with all other interlocks made up of course) knowing what many here know today
Then again, they have to tow the company line and thus have to keep their own real results and real world capabilities a little closer to the vest
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___You have to be careful with what the Ford engineers and managers said in regards to maximum FE. I do not know if you remember the story of the first guy to nail a 60.0 + segment in an Escape HEV but it was before it was released to the public. Mary Ann Wright told me the details as to how it was achieved last February and if I misquote any of it, forgive me
___A preesie of some regard folded in the mirrors, rolled up the windows in warmer temps, took it up to maybe 20 - 25 mph, and EV’ed the rest of the way down the 2 mile course. Today, 60.0 + around town can be had by anyone reading this thread and is both sustainable and real world if you have a slower (< 40 mph) all-city drive including stop and go’s. The Ford Engineer’s had/have no idea that this was achievable by any number of hypermilers here at GH and I have to wonder if they (Ford Engineers) are going to change there tune about driving in D w/ ICE-Off after any let up of the accelerator at < 40 mph (with all other interlocks made up of course) knowing what many here know today
Then again, they have to tow the company line and thus have to keep their own real results and real world capabilities a little closer to the vest ___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#93
10-21-2005, 07:42 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Wayne, your right about Ford's test and I think Ford back then was still in the fine tuning stage.
Getting 60+mpg is not hard at all on short trips but 60+mpg on a long trip or tank would be challenge in an FEH. Over the past 8 months and going though a hot summer, I've learned how to improve on FE over 40mph with the ICE and electic boost with the A/C on. Take away the A/C and add the low gear advantage and it may be posible or at least get closer than anyone ever thought to a 60+mpg tank.
There is a number above the 60+ or "MAX" fuel econmy limit on the computer that's not being seen, but its there. You can tell by the way you stay on max while in the ICE recharge mode till you go back into EV. Its this reserve of the plus 60mpg that can carry you above 40mph till you get back to an average of 60mpg in a less than 40mph route.
When it gets cooler here where my wife doesn't need the A/C, I'm going to put this to a real test. A trip to South Beach and back to Jupiter Island along the coast would be perfect to put this through a 200 mile test. If the computer is maxed out, I can still fill up and know what that 60+ (MAX) number is on the computer.
John (GPSMAN1), I brought up this 1,800 RPM at 65mph earlier and I'm glad to get your feedback. Its seems this happen to me after drafting at 65-70mph over a number of times. It's strange because you and I know with a good draft at that speed, the tach drops down to that range and below. I'll just spit it out, I think the computers and PCM learn from this low RPM at these high speeds and adjust the readings to the pedal angle. Latter, when were driving and get to 65mph and back off the pedal like were drafting, the computers and PCM allow the low RPM's and adjust the gears to the pedal angle. Have you noticed when you lose a draft that RPM's change very little and the FEH sort of reacts like your still drafting?
Gary
Getting 60+mpg is not hard at all on short trips but 60+mpg on a long trip or tank would be challenge in an FEH. Over the past 8 months and going though a hot summer, I've learned how to improve on FE over 40mph with the ICE and electic boost with the A/C on. Take away the A/C and add the low gear advantage and it may be posible or at least get closer than anyone ever thought to a 60+mpg tank.
There is a number above the 60+ or "MAX" fuel econmy limit on the computer that's not being seen, but its there. You can tell by the way you stay on max while in the ICE recharge mode till you go back into EV. Its this reserve of the plus 60mpg that can carry you above 40mph till you get back to an average of 60mpg in a less than 40mph route.
When it gets cooler here where my wife doesn't need the A/C, I'm going to put this to a real test. A trip to South Beach and back to Jupiter Island along the coast would be perfect to put this through a 200 mile test. If the computer is maxed out, I can still fill up and know what that 60+ (MAX) number is on the computer.
John (GPSMAN1), I brought up this 1,800 RPM at 65mph earlier and I'm glad to get your feedback. Its seems this happen to me after drafting at 65-70mph over a number of times. It's strange because you and I know with a good draft at that speed, the tach drops down to that range and below. I'll just spit it out, I think the computers and PCM learn from this low RPM at these high speeds and adjust the readings to the pedal angle. Latter, when were driving and get to 65mph and back off the pedal like were drafting, the computers and PCM allow the low RPM's and adjust the gears to the pedal angle. Have you noticed when you lose a draft that RPM's change very little and the FEH sort of reacts like your still drafting?
Gary
#94
10-22-2005, 01:10 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Originally Posted by xcel
Extremely steep grades and dead slow crawls around gravel road switchbacks do not hamper a hypermiler that much 
As soon as we start up the mountain, the MPG guage plummets into the single-digits and then slowly ventures back into the teens. It's better on the Prius than the Escape, but hills take a bigger mileage hit percentagewise on the Prius.
No hope of pulse-and-glide uphill, of course, because you can't glide.
Both of these cars get much better mileage in the flatland.
#95
10-22-2005, 08:05 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Hi AndyTiedye:
___It works like this. Up the mountain, your Escape HEV receives maybe 15 mpg on average. Poor FE but that is the way it is … Back down the mountain, it had better receive darn near infinite leading to FE of ~ 30 mpg for the RT climb and descent. Most of the tricks you have learned work while climbing just as they do in the flats. It is just a lot lower FE then you are used too during that hellish climb is all
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___It works like this. Up the mountain, your Escape HEV receives maybe 15 mpg on average. Poor FE but that is the way it is … Back down the mountain, it had better receive darn near infinite leading to FE of ~ 30 mpg for the RT climb and descent. Most of the tricks you have learned work while climbing just as they do in the flats. It is just a lot lower FE then you are used too during that hellish climb is all
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#96
10-22-2005, 08:35 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Of course, "It depends" ... climbing Sylvan hill (my work commute with the 3+ miles of 6.5 percent grade) I get even less than 15 MPG. Then just as I crest the hill I'm frequently hit with slow and go or stop and go traffic, negating any possibility of capitalizing on the momentum of the downhill coast.
I'd be better off if it was stop and go both up and down the hill!
I'd be better off if it was stop and go both up and down the hill!
Originally Posted by xcel
Hi AndyTiedye:
___It works like this. Up the mountain, your Escape HEV receives maybe 15 mpg on average. Poor FE but that is the way it is … Back down the mountain, it had better receive darn near infinite leading to FE of ~ 30 mpg for the RT climb and descent. Most of the tricks you have learned work while climbing just as they do in the flats. It is just a lot lower FE then you are used too during that hellish climb is all
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___It works like this. Up the mountain, your Escape HEV receives maybe 15 mpg on average. Poor FE but that is the way it is … Back down the mountain, it had better receive darn near infinite leading to FE of ~ 30 mpg for the RT climb and descent. Most of the tricks you have learned work while climbing just as they do in the flats. It is just a lot lower FE then you are used too during that hellish climb is all
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#97
10-23-2005, 01:49 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
This one is 4 miles and averages 8%, and we live at the top.
The hill drags our MPG average down a lot every time we go up it.
The descent is mostly with the engine warming up (running), so we never make up the mileage.
Also, the engine starts up at 40 mph no matter what, even if you are coasting.
Often, it starts on the downhill for no obvious reason at all.
To get a tank average significantly above 30 we would have to stay away from home for a whole tank.
It isn't clear how pulse-and-glide applies to a climb. You aren't going to glide at all.
It is possible to do the "pulse" part, but all that does is drain the battery without improving mileage. The energy display just switches between charging the battery an using it, with the engine running continuously, of course.
The hill drags our MPG average down a lot every time we go up it.
The descent is mostly with the engine warming up (running), so we never make up the mileage.
Also, the engine starts up at 40 mph no matter what, even if you are coasting.
Often, it starts on the downhill for no obvious reason at all.
To get a tank average significantly above 30 we would have to stay away from home for a whole tank.
It isn't clear how pulse-and-glide applies to a climb. You aren't going to glide at all.
It is possible to do the "pulse" part, but all that does is drain the battery without improving mileage. The energy display just switches between charging the battery an using it, with the engine running continuously, of course.
#98
10-23-2005, 02:39 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
I live in the foothills of my city, and so run into the same sort of problems.
My biggest peeve is finding that the battery pack hits full before my decline is finished, and then the engine comes on to bleed energy off ! I have thought about ending my climb with the pack depleted, but the Prius fights me in that regard, and I do not try *too* hard, for fear of shortening the pack's life.
My biggest peeve is finding that the battery pack hits full before my decline is finished, and then the engine comes on to bleed energy off ! I have thought about ending my climb with the pack depleted, but the Prius fights me in that regard, and I do not try *too* hard, for fear of shortening the pack's life.
#100
10-23-2005, 08:34 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Hi AndyTiedye:
___It sounds like you are screwed then? While climbing, you should still try P&G/EV in the Prius II/Escape HEV but at much lower speeds if possible? I would tighten up the bands to maybe a 3 mph delta and EV at those slower speeds for all she’s worth. If it is an 8% grade (never heard of something that steep for 4 miles?), move into the truck climbing lane w/ Emergencies on and drop speed to a crawl (20 - 25 mph). Pike’s Peak had maybe 5% grades (I have no idea the actuals?) in some points but had flats and even some slight down hills while traversing the switchbacks and if you do, take advantage of every opportunity to bring up the average or die In the Insight while traveling through SW NY state and much of MA., I would keep dropping speed just short of IMA assist while dropping gears until in second just below VTEC engagement and climb at 40 - 60 mpg’s while climbing those 5%’ers although very slowly. This may not be an option given you are running the eCVT’s and traffic may not allow but I would most certainly try a speed bleed off to absolute minimums and see what happens?
___EricGo, is your ICE starting /spinning in Fuel Cut or is actually burning fuel while ICE-Braking while the SoC is maxxed?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___It sounds like you are screwed then? While climbing, you should still try P&G/EV in the Prius II/Escape HEV but at much lower speeds if possible? I would tighten up the bands to maybe a 3 mph delta and EV at those slower speeds for all she’s worth. If it is an 8% grade (never heard of something that steep for 4 miles?), move into the truck climbing lane w/ Emergencies on and drop speed to a crawl (20 - 25 mph). Pike’s Peak had maybe 5% grades (I have no idea the actuals?) in some points but had flats and even some slight down hills while traversing the switchbacks and if you do, take advantage of every opportunity to bring up the average or die
In the Insight while traveling through SW NY state and much of MA., I would keep dropping speed just short of IMA assist while dropping gears until in second just below VTEC engagement and climb at 40 - 60 mpg’s while climbing those 5%’ers although very slowly. This may not be an option given you are running the eCVT’s and traffic may not allow but I would most certainly try a speed bleed off to absolute minimums and see what happens?___EricGo, is your ICE starting /spinning in Fuel Cut or is actually burning fuel while ICE-Braking while the SoC is maxxed?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Last edited by xcel; 10-23-2005 at 08:36 AM.
