The Low Gear Advantage
#191
05-07-2006, 02:45 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Ok, after reading all 189 prior postings in this thread, I decided to take our spankin' new 06 out for a test of the D and L programs, gliding, and fake shifting.
First off, the gliding concept simply doesn't look like it will be too effective around here without generating road rage issues. Any gains on my short 25 mile test drive are difficult to quantify, and the opportunities to take advantage of this concept were limited. Instead, I found it much more manageable and traffic friendly just use L in sub-40mph stop and go travel, and pop it into D when extended cruising or higher speeds were warranted. With all of the 40 mph zones immediately nearby, strictly EV travel is minimal.
The fake shifting concept seems to have merit, but aside from the obvious drop in rpms, it's difficult to nail down what benefit it has over short term testing. It is however something that I will continue to do because it simply makes sense.
The D & L shifting however is a boon! On the normal 20 minute loop of taking kids to and from school, I saw an immediate 7 mpg bump!
First off, the gliding concept simply doesn't look like it will be too effective around here without generating road rage issues. Any gains on my short 25 mile test drive are difficult to quantify, and the opportunities to take advantage of this concept were limited. Instead, I found it much more manageable and traffic friendly just use L in sub-40mph stop and go travel, and pop it into D when extended cruising or higher speeds were warranted. With all of the 40 mph zones immediately nearby, strictly EV travel is minimal.
The fake shifting concept seems to have merit, but aside from the obvious drop in rpms, it's difficult to nail down what benefit it has over short term testing. It is however something that I will continue to do because it simply makes sense.
The D & L shifting however is a boon! On the normal 20 minute loop of taking kids to and from school, I saw an immediate 7 mpg bump!
#192
05-07-2006, 03:45 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Hello Kip
The Pulse and Glide (Accelerate and Coast) is a proven technique in rasing your MPG. It can be used at high speeds and low speeds in traffic, on hills and every condition out there. I use it during warm up and throughout the day. If you really care to improve your mileage, put these techniques into your driving habits. You can go EV whenever you drop below 40mph, and save fuel. Coasting in "N" is better than coasting in "D" because it does not allow regenerative braking while gliding. My test have shown that you can coast over 36% further from 40mph to a stop in neutral. The Fake shift has much more benifits than when this thread was posted. People here are now reporting over 40mpg in the AWD, and my FWD has seen 70+mpg on a 20 mile round trip. Check out my article on "HYPERMILING THE FORD ESCAPE HYBRID" at http://www.cleanmpg.com/ .
GaryG
The Pulse and Glide (Accelerate and Coast) is a proven technique in rasing your MPG. It can be used at high speeds and low speeds in traffic, on hills and every condition out there. I use it during warm up and throughout the day. If you really care to improve your mileage, put these techniques into your driving habits. You can go EV whenever you drop below 40mph, and save fuel. Coasting in "N" is better than coasting in "D" because it does not allow regenerative braking while gliding. My test have shown that you can coast over 36% further from 40mph to a stop in neutral. The Fake shift has much more benifits than when this thread was posted. People here are now reporting over 40mpg in the AWD, and my FWD has seen 70+mpg on a 20 mile round trip. Check out my article on "HYPERMILING THE FORD ESCAPE HYBRID" at http://www.cleanmpg.com/ .
GaryG
#193
05-07-2006, 04:40 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Well I'll continue to monkey around with it. The primary factor to determine is where and when to do it.
The proof however is obviously in the pudding, and I will dare say that you seem adept at making pudding!
Thanks so much for your's and everybody else's contribution to this thread. Even if all I ever get out of it is that 7 mpg instantaneous increase in the average trip economy, my time here has been well spent.
The proof however is obviously in the pudding, and I will dare say that you seem adept at making pudding!
Thanks so much for your's and everybody else's contribution to this thread. Even if all I ever get out of it is that 7 mpg instantaneous increase in the average trip economy, my time here has been well spent.
#194
05-08-2006, 06:33 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
I'm beginning to think that the fake shift helps me while in ev as well. I find that a brief pause (off the loud pedal) at about 20 makes it easier to accelerate the rest of the way to 35 or so without dropping out to ICE.
MM
MM
#195
05-08-2006, 08:16 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Hi Kip –
Sounds like you and I – plus a lot more guys out there – have about the same driving conditions. I also find myself using a combo of tricks gleaned from all these great guys. Gary’s post is short and sweet with the basics to getting the best FE.
What Gary says about doing fake shifts in ‘L’ during warm-up is especially helpful. It will get the SoC higher quicker, thus putting less drag on the ICE to generate power to the battery and the natural braking or deceleration caused by this, is shorten and then if you can be able to glide in ‘D’ the drag is not there and the FE goes up – but it is MUCH better to throw it into ‘N’ and get the BEST. His remark about EV below 40mph can be accomplished a couple of different ways. If not already in ‘L’ pull it back and if everything is warmed up and ready to go, the ICE will shut down on its own – then move it up to ‘N’ and glide – you will be surprised how far it will glide without losing any speed. You can also just put it into ‘N’ and do a simple double-tap (not really the brakes so hard to have the calipers touch the disk – but just to start re-gen braking) of the brakes and get the same effect. Just as a personal preference I like the latter because I don’t seem to lose as much momentum. Pravus Prime (Rich) gives a very good analogy in the ‘Is ICE Efficient’ thread of why getting the SoC up as soon as possible is such a boon.
It does take a different driving habit especially when you are 40mph or lower. Looking at the conditions you are coming up on – stopped traffic, red light etc. – put it in ‘N’ and coast (you are going to be coming to a stop or greatly slowing down anyway) then when you are getting close to the cars ahead then down to ‘D’ using a light touch on the brakes for re-gen, then ‘L’ for a good shot of energy to the battery. The guys with the FWD can stay in EV a little higher – say to 35mph – but on a flat road about the most I can pull off is 30-32mph without the ICE kicking back in.
Sounds like you and I – plus a lot more guys out there – have about the same driving conditions. I also find myself using a combo of tricks gleaned from all these great guys. Gary’s post is short and sweet with the basics to getting the best FE.
Originally Posted by snax
First off, the gliding concept simply doesn't look like it will be too effective around here without generating road rage issues. Any gains on my short 25 mile test drive are difficult to quantify, and the opportunities to take advantage of this concept were limited. Instead, I found it much more manageable and traffic friendly just use L in sub-40mph stop and go travel, and pop it into D when extended cruising or higher speeds were warranted. With all of the 40 mph zones immediately nearby, strictly EV travel is minimal.
The fake shifting concept seems to have merit, but aside from the obvious drop in rpms, it's difficult to nail down what benefit it has over short term testing. It is however something that I will continue to do because it simply makes sense.!
The fake shifting concept seems to have merit, but aside from the obvious drop in rpms, it's difficult to nail down what benefit it has over short term testing. It is however something that I will continue to do because it simply makes sense.!
Originally Posted by GaryG
Hello Kip
The Pulse and Glide (Accelerate and Coast) is a proven technique in raising your MPG. It can be used at high speeds and low speeds in traffic, on hills and every condition out there. I use it during warm up and throughout the day. If you really care to improve your mileage, put these techniques into your driving habits. You can go EV whenever you drop below 40mph, and save fuel. Coasting in "N" is better than coasting in "D" because it does not allow regenerative braking while gliding. My test have shown that you can coast over 36% further from 40mph to a stop in neutral.
GaryG
The Pulse and Glide (Accelerate and Coast) is a proven technique in raising your MPG. It can be used at high speeds and low speeds in traffic, on hills and every condition out there. I use it during warm up and throughout the day. If you really care to improve your mileage, put these techniques into your driving habits. You can go EV whenever you drop below 40mph, and save fuel. Coasting in "N" is better than coasting in "D" because it does not allow regenerative braking while gliding. My test have shown that you can coast over 36% further from 40mph to a stop in neutral.
GaryG
What Gary says about doing fake shifts in ‘L’ during warm-up is especially helpful. It will get the SoC higher quicker, thus putting less drag on the ICE to generate power to the battery and the natural braking or deceleration caused by this, is shorten and then if you can be able to glide in ‘D’ the drag is not there and the FE goes up – but it is MUCH better to throw it into ‘N’ and get the BEST. His remark about EV below 40mph can be accomplished a couple of different ways. If not already in ‘L’ pull it back and if everything is warmed up and ready to go, the ICE will shut down on its own – then move it up to ‘N’ and glide – you will be surprised how far it will glide without losing any speed. You can also just put it into ‘N’ and do a simple double-tap (not really the brakes so hard to have the calipers touch the disk – but just to start re-gen braking) of the brakes and get the same effect. Just as a personal preference I like the latter because I don’t seem to lose as much momentum. Pravus Prime (Rich) gives a very good analogy in the ‘Is ICE Efficient’ thread of why getting the SoC up as soon as possible is such a boon.
It does take a different driving habit especially when you are 40mph or lower. Looking at the conditions you are coming up on – stopped traffic, red light etc. – put it in ‘N’ and coast (you are going to be coming to a stop or greatly slowing down anyway) then when you are getting close to the cars ahead then down to ‘D’ using a light touch on the brakes for re-gen, then ‘L’ for a good shot of energy to the battery. The guys with the FWD can stay in EV a little higher – say to 35mph – but on a flat road about the most I can pull off is 30-32mph without the ICE kicking back in.
#196
05-08-2006, 04:49 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Posts: 3,616
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Originally Posted by VietVet'67
The guys with the FWD can stay in EV a little higher – say to 35mph – but on a flat road about the most I can pull off is 30-32mph without the ICE kicking back in.
Also, when coasting down from high speed, it will drop to EV at exactly 40 MPH if I am in L gear.
Mine is '05. Do some FWD owners not get this effect until below 35 MPH ???
Second... can some others please experiment with coasting in N and coasting in D with no arrows on the display? I've tried this many. many times, over the course of a year in all tempertures and conditions, and always coast the same distance. It is more difficult, for sure, to keep zero arrows on the screen in D, but my results are always the same. If there is a benifit to coasting in N, it seems to me, the only benefit is you can relax your foot!
TIA
-John
#197
05-08-2006, 05:29 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
On my 06 awd if I am coasting down from at least 43, I get the beginnings of a turn off starting just inside 40. By the time the tach pauses at 500 or so and then drops, my speed tends to be 35 or 36. I can hold that on dead level ground, and go to an indicated 40 with a slight downhill in EV. It is very difficult to accellerate from 25 to 35 in EV without having a drop out to ICE,which is why I have been 'fake shifting' while in ev at about 20. Seems to make it easier to get to 35...?
MM
MM
#198
05-08-2006, 06:16 PM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Mark, you may have a solution for the AWD owners. Is your fake shift in "L" for the max regen surge? The FWD must use less battery juice to get to 35mph from 0 mph, but still, it could help us also. The higher the charge or SoC of the battery helps to stay in EV. Tomarrow, I give it a shot. Generally, I can go to 30mph fairly fast in EV, but go very slow after that to prevent a start up. This is why I use the P&G in EV from 30-32mph and glide in "N" to 25mph and repeat. The results is killer MPG for the FEH, but of course traffic must be considered.
It's getting hot here in So. FL and as soon as the winds come down, I'm going for a 20 mile round trip of 80mpg. The A/C will be a new test for me after that to maintain FE.
GaryG
It's getting hot here in So. FL and as soon as the winds come down, I'm going for a 20 mile round trip of 80mpg. The A/C will be a new test for me after that to maintain FE.
GaryG
#199
05-09-2006, 04:15 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
Originally Posted by MMooney
On my 06 awd if I am coasting down from at least 43, I get the beginnings of a turn off starting just inside 40. By the time the tach pauses at 500 or so and then drops, my speed tends to be 35 or 36. I can hold that on dead level ground, and go to an indicated 40 with a slight downhill in EV. It is very difficult to accellerate from 25 to 35 in EV without having a drop out to ICEMM
~John
#200
05-09-2006, 06:38 AM
Re: The Low Gear Advantage
I don't know if regen surge comes into play or not, but the feeling is similar to 'getting another bite' on the transmission, just like when running on ice. I don't have all the snazzy guages, so all I can watch is the charge-discharge meter on the left of my dash. It appears to use less juice once I do this. I suspect I am lowering the rpm requirement for the EV motor by doing so.
MM
MM
