I know this is from quite a few post back but had a little more time to look back over some threads.
I guess mine, also, is unique like Gary's and others. Even without the ScanGuage I can tell the difference in coasting in 'N' over whatever term you want to use for 'Working the gas' to get a 'Neutral Effect'.

Having tried "deadbanding" - and while there - shifting to 'N' - I can tell/feel a difference. From what I have learned from reading, and the plain - 'I know if you take something completely out of the equation' - you are going to loose that resistance that would be there to decrease your forward momentum.

Plus you talk about 'Work' - the Work comes from having to constantly keep your eyes on the screen to make sure your foot or the terrain hasn't moved you out of the Sweet Spot. It is a lots easier And Safer to just throw it into 'N' and glide and keep your eyes and mind on what you should be doing - Driving. Just my opinion.

Gator - in GA it also is illegal to coast in Neutral. Must be something back there in the Dark Ages that mandated this. What the heck - they going to see that you are gliding in 'N' - if they pull you over for doing it - hopefully you have put it in 'Park'

 

I wonder if the gliding in "N" laws are for safety. If you are in "N" going down hill and brake, then you don't have the engine drag to help you slow down so you could heat up your brakes dangerously (causing the fluid to boil with loss of the brakes). Thats why in a manual you are supposed to downshift and let out the clutch on hills.

Also... if you are in Neutral and need to accelerate to get out of a situation (for example you see someone coming at your car from the side you might want to hit the gas to get out of the way, being in "N" could be a disadvantage.

By the way.... no criticism of using the "N" trick is intended. I'm just wondering if that is the thinking behind the law. As I understand it the people using the trick are in "L" going downhill (which is great cause it uses the battery for drag) and the latter probably means you are running a redlight anyway

 

This law is antiquated, and does not apply to Hybrid's... especially with eCVT's, since the car glides in "neutral" all the time, without you necessarily knowing it.

I'll bet it's on the books somewhere that it is illegal to drive with the engine off also. And how often do you do this? ( Hopefully a lot of the time! )

It may be possible to get a ticket in the field, but it would NEVER hold up once the details were explained in court.

The law was to protect you and other drivers from persons driving without hydraulic brakes or steering... something that goes away in traditional vehicles... but does not go away in electrically operated or hybrid vehicles.

 

These laws most certainly do apply to hybrids, you may have excluded them in your mind, but not the legislature...and they are the ones that count. And these laws would most certainly hold up in court, I have no idea why you think they wouldn't. When I worked as a prosecutor ages ago my first stop was traffic court. The language prohibiting the conduct is clear and quite enforceable and the rationale behind it reasonable.

The law was not designed to protect people from driving without brakes or steering, I think you may have missed the point. There is a certain element of loss of control when one drives in neutral. Clearly you retain steering and brakes, what you lose is the ability to immediately accelerate if needed.

Refer to the statutes in your state and govern your driving accordingly.

 

Hi Gator

For 15 years I wrote "reasonable" laws to be passed, and I handled most of the appeals of those laws for the State. You and I must look to the intent of the law to enforce them properly. We also must take into account the conditions as to why the law had to be passed. Most of the time when a law is created, it is for life safety (my area of expertise).

As with the FL law, it addresses all vehicles in neutral or clutch engaged going down a downgrade. You are taking the strict letter of the law and saying something about the intent might also be for acceleration. Others here take the position the law is for trucks and vehicles which may have brake issues by the time they reach the bottom of the downgrade. Most passenger cars today have an automatic trans, which when the gas pedal is released in "D", it's no different than neutral. There is no engine braking in most automatics today. I personally think engine braking was the original intent of that law and I bet a jury and most judges would agree. Now, if someone was injured in an accident because the driver was coasting downgrade, you can bet they would use that law to TRY to recover damages.

GaryG

 

Gary: I must respectfully disagree with most of your post.

There is a significant diffrence between coasting in drive and in neutral. Just depress the gas pedal. You asre also incorrect if you believe that there is no engine braking in most automatics today. Drive my 2002 Escape with the CD4E transmission, the same tramsmission being installed in conventional 2007 Escapes....engine braking.

You are not entitled to a jury trial in Florida on a civil infraction citation.

Legislative intent is significant if a law is unclear or otherwise ambiguous on its fasce. The cited statute is not. I have no question that if a law enforcement officer can prove to a judge or hearing officer (no jury) in our state that you coasted on a downgrade in neutral, you will be convicted.

My only point was to encourage people to check the laws in their own states to ensure they are not violating the law in the quest for an extra MPG or two. Any other approach is not especially responsible. Some states might not restrict the practice at all, some may prohibit it in other conditions than downgrades. But merely driving a hybrid doesn't give you a "pass" to violate the law.

You indicated you handled "appeals of laws" for the state. What appeals are you referring to as you have to be an attorney to do that? You are not listed on The Florida Bar roster and it's ptetty clear from your post that you are not an attorney.

 

Doesn't apply to Hybrid's??? Whatever gave you that idea???


I also don't agree that gliding along in neutral is the same as gliding in drive, it's definitely not.

By the way, I know it's illegal to glide along in neutral & yes I do it anyway at times. I have a stretch on my way home from work that crests a hill, goes down & then back up another hill & then down a very long downhill & then over another smaller hill.

If I do it right(& nobody pulls out of a side street in front of me), I can slide it in to neutral as I crest the first hill & then coast the entire stretch never once dropping below the speed limit. If I leave it in drive, I have to accelerate slightly at a couple points during the stretch so as not to hold up traffic behind me.

~John

 

Gator, you are correct that I’m not an attorney and never said I was. Not sure if a hearing officer has to be an attorney either. My background is in the fire service as a Fire Marshal, Battalion Chief, Chief Fire and Arson Investigator which all have duties and a job description including writing, recommending and enforcing National, State Statues, and local fire codes. I worked with the State Attorney, State Fire Marshal, Palm Beach County Sheriff , FHP and City Police Departments to prosecute violators of these laws. You might guess I also hold to many National and State Certifications to mention here.

In the State of FL, Code Enforcement Boards are set up to hear on appeal and levy fines for law and ordinance violations to reduce the loads on the Courts. From 1981 thru 1991, I personally represented Palm Beach County on all matters of appeal of the above laws and ordinances. In addition, I personally wrote local and put together National Building and Fire Codes for the Palm Beach County Commissioners to adopt. Many of the codes and ordinances that I wrote have been used and adopted throughout this Country regarding Water Supplies, Fire Department Access and User Fees for Plans Review and Fire Inspection.

It makes sense to me that the intent of the FS and other state laws regarding neutral was written solely for downgrades and the concern was to prevent a vehicle from reaching high speeds in neutral or with the clutch engaged from losing control. It is wise to use engine braking in manual transmissions or low gears (1st or 2nd) in an automatic on long downgrades. This is why you see signs “Trucks Use Low Gear On Downgrade” at the top of a mountain. With a vehicle in “D”, there would be very little difference than “N” as far as slowing you down on a fast downgrade in most vehicles. Knowing and working with many lawmakers in this State, it does not surprise me that this law is on the books in a state that has no mountains. It could be that the DOT or NTSB have standards they want the States to enforce though.

There is no question in my mind that the letter of the law could be enforced to all vehicles. At what point does an officer use judgement in that enforcement? In my opinion, this is like the guy driving to the recycle plant with a load of beer cans and getting cited for an open alcohol container. The point of this law is maintaining control of speed down hills and the fact that we respectfully disagree with each other, one could argue that the law is unclear and ambiguous.

The need to depress the gas pedal to speed up on a downgrade has nothing to do with this law IMO. Nothing wrong with you pointing out that these laws exist because you can lose control on a downgrade by reaching high speeds in neutral. My concern is safety also, and that also applies with saving MPG and burning less fossil fuels.

GaryG