Help me with MPG
#11
06-16-2006, 08:40 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
John, you must understand that patents are developed to create protection of an invention. The Ford patent is for general methods that Ford uses to disengage the output shaft from the drives wheels. There are a number of reasons listed in this patent which include the neutral position, for the need for output shafts and wheel end disconnects.
The exact method that is used in the FEH to disengaged the output shaft from the drive wheels is not detailed in any patent. The reason for the need to disengage the output shaft from the drive wheels in this patent is quite clear.
There are a number of places in the FEH workshop mauals that decribes neutral as disengaging the drive wheels. Look at WS Manual Vol 1 pages 307-01 B-2 and 307-05 B-1 which says under the FEH Neutral Selection "the output shaft is disengaged from the drive wheels". The PC/ED manual states "The eCVT does not deliver any positive or negative torque to the output shafts of the vehicle". The use of "positive or negative torque" may have confused you and others to believe that "Deadbanding" will have the same results as "N" gliding. There is no way I could use deadbanning to get a 70+mpg 10 or 20 mile segment.
GaryG
The exact method that is used in the FEH to disengaged the output shaft from the drive wheels is not detailed in any patent. The reason for the need to disengage the output shaft from the drive wheels in this patent is quite clear.
There are a number of places in the FEH workshop mauals that decribes neutral as disengaging the drive wheels. Look at WS Manual Vol 1 pages 307-01 B-2 and 307-05 B-1 which says under the FEH Neutral Selection "the output shaft is disengaged from the drive wheels". The PC/ED manual states "The eCVT does not deliver any positive or negative torque to the output shafts of the vehicle". The use of "positive or negative torque" may have confused you and others to believe that "Deadbanding" will have the same results as "N" gliding. There is no way I could use deadbanning to get a 70+mpg 10 or 20 mile segment.
GaryG
#12
06-16-2006, 09:39 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
Originally Posted by Pravus Prime
First of all, relax. Take a deep breath, let it out, and remember, you've taken a lot of great steps, you don't have to reach for the brass ring quite yet. Give yourself time for just being in the saddle. Most, if not all of us have crappy tanks for the first four or so tanks.
Nate
#13
06-16-2006, 08:48 PM
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Re: Help me with MPG
Originally Posted by GaryG
The use of "positive or negative torque" may have confused you and others to believe that "Deadbanding" will have the same results as "N" gliding. There is no way I could use deadbanning to get a 70+mpg 10 or 20 mile segment.
GaryG
GaryG
I net over 75 MPG for 18 miles on mostly flat city driving, without shifting to N more than once or twice for a selected long segment.
Again, not saying your method is bad. I know it works.
But there is the key word.... work...
IMHO all the shifting is more "work". ( some call it fun, which is ok )
"deadbanding" is a relativly new term for me...
But being a scientist for a profession, I cannot decern any remarkable difference between coasting in N and D.
Maybe there is something unique to your vehicle, or locality... or maybe it's mine.
-John
#14
06-16-2006, 10:50 PM
Re: Help me with MPG
Originally Posted by gpsman1
Then how come I can?
I net over 75 MPG for 18 miles on mostly flat city driving, without shifting to N more than once or twice for a selected long segment.
Again, not saying your method is bad. I know it works.
But there is the key word.... work...
IMHO all the shifting is more "work". ( some call it fun, which is ok )
"deadbanding" is a relativly new term for me...
But being a scientist for a profession, I cannot decern any remarkable difference between coasting in N and D.
Maybe there is something unique to your vehicle, or locality... or maybe it's mine.
-John
I net over 75 MPG for 18 miles on mostly flat city driving, without shifting to N more than once or twice for a selected long segment.
Again, not saying your method is bad. I know it works.
But there is the key word.... work...
IMHO all the shifting is more "work". ( some call it fun, which is ok )
"deadbanding" is a relativly new term for me...
But being a scientist for a profession, I cannot decern any remarkable difference between coasting in N and D.
Maybe there is something unique to your vehicle, or locality... or maybe it's mine.
-John
I doubt it's your vehicle, as for the most part mine seems to behave like yours; I wonder if this is a climate/age issue?
However, I kind of like shifting, well, from D to L to brake, then back as needed to slow down or accelerate back up to speed.
I've been using some N, and though I don't have scangauge, I can't really tell if it helps or not.
#15
06-17-2006, 11:48 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
Hey Rich
You know I have the Nav Sys, but I value the ugly SG just as much. As soon as I find out the new SG W/USB is available, my $169 is on it's way man.
If you can't notice a huge increase in MPG using "N" coasting, your not taking advantage of it right. I go from "L" dirrectly to "N" constantly, no matter what speed or if the ICE is running. It's great with the A/C on and it still gives me 45mpg tanks in the city. Your AWD needs to break free from that gear set as much as possible and when ever possible. Suggest you take the gas savings and get yourself a SG, you'll be glad you did.
John, Goodyear pumped my tires up to 50psi without me knowing it. As you know, I keep mine at 44psi and reminded them. I can see you had about at least 1.5mpg advantage with your TP now.
GaryG
You know I have the Nav Sys, but I value the ugly SG just as much. As soon as I find out the new SG W/USB is available, my $169 is on it's way man.
If you can't notice a huge increase in MPG using "N" coasting, your not taking advantage of it right. I go from "L" dirrectly to "N" constantly, no matter what speed or if the ICE is running. It's great with the A/C on and it still gives me 45mpg tanks in the city. Your AWD needs to break free from that gear set as much as possible and when ever possible. Suggest you take the gas savings and get yourself a SG, you'll be glad you did.
John, Goodyear pumped my tires up to 50psi without me knowing it. As you know, I keep mine at 44psi and reminded them. I can see you had about at least 1.5mpg advantage with your TP now.
GaryG
#16
06-18-2006, 12:04 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
Originally Posted by GaryG
Hey Rich
You know I have the Nav Sys, but I value the ugly SG just as much. As soon as I find out the new SG W/USB is available, my $169 is on it's way man.
If you can't notice a huge increase in MPG using "N" coasting, your not taking advantage of it right. I go from "L" dirrectly to "N" constantly, no matter what speed or if the ICE is running. It's great with the A/C on and it still gives me 45mpg tanks in the city. Your AWD needs to break free from that gear set as much as possible and when ever possible. Suggest you take the gas savings and get yourself a SG, you'll be glad you did.
You know I have the Nav Sys, but I value the ugly SG just as much. As soon as I find out the new SG W/USB is available, my $169 is on it's way man.
If you can't notice a huge increase in MPG using "N" coasting, your not taking advantage of it right. I go from "L" dirrectly to "N" constantly, no matter what speed or if the ICE is running. It's great with the A/C on and it still gives me 45mpg tanks in the city. Your AWD needs to break free from that gear set as much as possible and when ever possible. Suggest you take the gas savings and get yourself a SG, you'll be glad you did.
If you've been paying attention (And I hope you haven't, it would be creepy), my last few tanks have been rather high, and I've been using a variant on the boost and coast, using N to coast. I don't know if that's what's allowed me to essentially jump from getting 34's to consistantly getting 36 and 37 MPGs, or if that comes with age and experience, as well as the warmer weather as summer hits here, or those factors working together, along with taking the roof rack off.
I may get a Scangauge someday, but I've got enough going on right now to keep my dish rather full without having to add all that. (And by that, I mean installation, learning how to use it, and obsessing over that as well!)
#17
06-18-2006, 08:27 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
Yes Rich, I have notice your last few tanks improving and I don't have a AWD to compare you with. Certainly your in the hyppermiling range, but it seems you don't have a clear answer as to what trick is giving you the most benifits and when. A combination of things are working, it is clear of that.
It sounds like you have some monster stop light issues challenging you as well as some heavy highway commutes. I'm like you, I always have a lot of weight to carry around and I don't bother with taking the roof cross bars off myself. It is those challenges that make the SG so vital to me to quickly see what is working and what is not working. This thing can be installed in minutes with no tools or if you want to make a real professional installation, you can move it around to find out the ideal location for you. Just because the SG does so much, don't think you need any special instructions. A quick question here can be answered for the standard use. It seems that many people are asking some very advance questions about getting the SG to do things that are not standard, but don't get confused because it's very simple. After all, I can operate it, so anyone can.
If I drove the miles you drive, the SG would have paid for itself in a short time. When Goodyear pumped my tires to 50psi, I knew something was up right away with my SG current trip average MPG. This is an automatic readout from the time you start the FEH, till you turn it off. After you start the FEH again, that average goes to the Today's average and begins a new current average. Overnight, the SG resets the Today's average and moves that average to the previous Day average. At any time, you can go to the tank average to know where you stand at that point with your overall tank average. This thing is great!!!
GaryG
It sounds like you have some monster stop light issues challenging you as well as some heavy highway commutes. I'm like you, I always have a lot of weight to carry around and I don't bother with taking the roof cross bars off myself. It is those challenges that make the SG so vital to me to quickly see what is working and what is not working. This thing can be installed in minutes with no tools or if you want to make a real professional installation, you can move it around to find out the ideal location for you. Just because the SG does so much, don't think you need any special instructions. A quick question here can be answered for the standard use. It seems that many people are asking some very advance questions about getting the SG to do things that are not standard, but don't get confused because it's very simple. After all, I can operate it, so anyone can.
If I drove the miles you drive, the SG would have paid for itself in a short time. When Goodyear pumped my tires to 50psi, I knew something was up right away with my SG current trip average MPG. This is an automatic readout from the time you start the FEH, till you turn it off. After you start the FEH again, that average goes to the Today's average and begins a new current average. Overnight, the SG resets the Today's average and moves that average to the previous Day average. At any time, you can go to the tank average to know where you stand at that point with your overall tank average. This thing is great!!!
GaryG
#18
06-18-2006, 12:15 PM
Re: Help me with MPG
Originally Posted by GaryG
Yes Rich, I have notice your last few tanks improving and I don't have a AWD to compare you with. Certainly your in the hyppermiling range, but it seems you don't have a clear answer as to what trick is giving you the most benifits and when. A combination of things are working, it is clear of that.
It sounds like you have some monster stop light issues challenging you as well as some heavy highway commutes. I'm like you, I always have a lot of weight to carry around and I don't bother with taking the roof cross bars off myself. It is those challenges that make the SG so vital to me to quickly see what is working and what is not working. This thing can be installed in minutes with no tools or if you want to make a real professional installation, you can move it around to find out the ideal location for you. Just because the SG does so much, don't think you need any special instructions. A quick question here can be answered for the standard use. It seems that many people are asking some very advance questions about getting the SG to do things that are not standard, but don't get confused because it's very simple. After all, I can operate it, so anyone can.
If I drove the miles you drive, the SG would have paid for itself in a short time. When Goodyear pumped my tires to 50psi, I knew something was up right away with my SG current trip average MPG. This is an automatic readout from the time you start the FEH, till you turn it off. After you start the FEH again, that average goes to the Today's average and begins a new current average. Overnight, the SG resets the Today's average and moves that average to the previous Day average. At any time, you can go to the tank average to know where you stand at that point with your overall tank average. This thing is great!!!
GaryG
It sounds like you have some monster stop light issues challenging you as well as some heavy highway commutes. I'm like you, I always have a lot of weight to carry around and I don't bother with taking the roof cross bars off myself. It is those challenges that make the SG so vital to me to quickly see what is working and what is not working. This thing can be installed in minutes with no tools or if you want to make a real professional installation, you can move it around to find out the ideal location for you. Just because the SG does so much, don't think you need any special instructions. A quick question here can be answered for the standard use. It seems that many people are asking some very advance questions about getting the SG to do things that are not standard, but don't get confused because it's very simple. After all, I can operate it, so anyone can.
If I drove the miles you drive, the SG would have paid for itself in a short time. When Goodyear pumped my tires to 50psi, I knew something was up right away with my SG current trip average MPG. This is an automatic readout from the time you start the FEH, till you turn it off. After you start the FEH again, that average goes to the Today's average and begins a new current average. Overnight, the SG resets the Today's average and moves that average to the previous Day average. At any time, you can go to the tank average to know where you stand at that point with your overall tank average. This thing is great!!!
GaryG
You make it sound so easy, perhaps when the next version of SG comes out, I'll pick one up. Be sure to let me know.
All right, as much fun as this is, let's get back on topic. We should feel free to continue discussing this, just in a new thread, we're not really helping Tim there better his mileage.
#20
06-29-2006, 11:50 AM
Re: Help me with MPG
FWIW, coasting is illegal in most states. In Florida by Florida Statute 316.2024 "Coasting prohibited: The driver of any motor vehicle, when traveling upon a downgrade, shall not coast with the gears or transmission of such vehicle in neutral or the clutch disengaged. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving vioation as provided in chapter 318."
Obviously, Florida's law only applies to downgrades and it would only apply to coasting while in neutral. Each state's laws are different and in some states traffic violations are misdemeanors. You should check into your local laws in making a decision as to whether or not you want to engage in this practice.
Obviously, Florida's law only applies to downgrades and it would only apply to coasting while in neutral. Each state's laws are different and in some states traffic violations are misdemeanors. You should check into your local laws in making a decision as to whether or not you want to engage in this practice.
