Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
#11
08-21-2006, 06:12 PM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
I usually fill up between 50 MTE and 20 MTE. I've never squeezed more than 13.4 gallons in at that point.
Also, can anyone clarify how and when the vehicle determines MTE? Mine seems to vary radically. It seems to re-calc every time I start the vehicle, but sometimes it changes ALOT. I started it today at an avg of 32.4 mpg and it reported like 414 MTE. Then shortly thereafter I started it again at 32.0 mpg and it reported 361 MTE. I had only driven about a mile between these two stops. Wacky.
Also, can anyone clarify how and when the vehicle determines MTE? Mine seems to vary radically. It seems to re-calc every time I start the vehicle, but sometimes it changes ALOT. I started it today at an avg of 32.4 mpg and it reported like 414 MTE. Then shortly thereafter I started it again at 32.0 mpg and it reported 361 MTE. I had only driven about a mile between these two stops. Wacky.
#12
08-21-2006, 08:09 PM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
Chuck, the FWD can get extreme mileage when broke in, but I'm not seeing it with any other posters. I went to check todays SG reading and this is the results.
Today was 48.0 mpg
26mpg average
2.9 Hr
4157 rpm max
77.6 miles
1.6 gallons used
This was with the A/C on from a cold start. I had to use the Ice for cooling alot to stay cool.
garyG
Today was 48.0 mpg
26mpg average
2.9 Hr
4157 rpm max
77.6 miles
1.6 gallons used
This was with the A/C on from a cold start. I had to use the Ice for cooling alot to stay cool.
garyG
#13
08-21-2006, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
Originally Posted by GaryG
Chuck, the FWD can get extreme mileage when broke in, but I'm not seeing it with any other posters. I went to check todays SG reading and this is the results.
Today was 48.0 mpg
garyG
Today was 48.0 mpg
garyG
#14
08-22-2006, 04:21 AM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
Originally Posted by aetherion
I believe this is pretty standard practice among most cars. Lots of cars intentionally misreport their "empty" status to avoid people running out of gas. All cars I've driven in the past have fit this behavior (Volvo, Chrysler). On all of them the fuel guage won't report about 2 gallons.
I've confirmed this on my FEH by driving until "miles to empty" hits 0 (and even past that) and then fueling up ~13 gallons to "full".
So it's a good thing for most people to have this "feature".
I've confirmed this on my FEH by driving until "miles to empty" hits 0 (and even past that) and then fueling up ~13 gallons to "full".
So it's a good thing for most people to have this "feature".
Yea, it is. In 1972 I bought a brand new SuperBeetle. That car had by far the most accurate fuel gauge I have ever seen. I was on the first tank of gas & it was still reading a very tiny sliver above empty. I should have stopped for gas on the way home from work, but I was tired & just wanted to get home so I skipped it.
That gas got very good gas mileage, so I figured I could make it to work the next morning with no problem. I pulled out the next morning & as I was driving away, the needle edged to the empty line. The car died totally one block later just as I left the light right in the middle of a VERY busy intersection............
~John
#15
08-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
Sorry John
When I looked back at my post, I did type "any other posters", but it was a typing mistake. I meant "many other posters". I also put "26mpg average" and meant "26mph" average.
Just looked at the mileage data base to see how many I affended and see you have a 37.3mpg average. Are you not maintaining at least a 42mpg average overall? Also, it looks like two other people are reporting over 39mpg averages. I'd like to hear from them if they can hit extreme numbers like we report.
Wayne has wanted me to post my tanks for some time now, so I guess I'll start doing it. The SG really helps with tank averages now. Among other things, I just didn't think messing with gallons pumped was worth my time in the past. One problem I saw when I found out about the data base was I had about 6,000 miles on My FEH with no records. Will it be unfair to start reporting after 27,000 miles, when most included break in mileage in their average?
Any thoughts?
GaryG
When I looked back at my post, I did type "any other posters", but it was a typing mistake. I meant "many other posters". I also put "26mpg average" and meant "26mph" average.
Just looked at the mileage data base to see how many I affended and see you have a 37.3mpg average. Are you not maintaining at least a 42mpg average overall? Also, it looks like two other people are reporting over 39mpg averages. I'd like to hear from them if they can hit extreme numbers like we report.
Wayne has wanted me to post my tanks for some time now, so I guess I'll start doing it. The SG really helps with tank averages now. Among other things, I just didn't think messing with gallons pumped was worth my time in the past. One problem I saw when I found out about the data base was I had about 6,000 miles on My FEH with no records. Will it be unfair to start reporting after 27,000 miles, when most included break in mileage in their average?
Any thoughts?
GaryG
Last edited by Pravus Prime; 08-23-2006 at 04:42 PM. Reason: What's With the Spacing?
#16
08-22-2006, 08:32 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
Originally Posted by GaryG
Sorry John
Just looked at the mileage data base to see how many I affended and see you have a 37.3mpg average. Are you not maintaining at least a 42mpg average overall?
I AM NOW, AFTER LEARNING ALL THE TIPS AND TRICKS, AND OF COURSE ENGINE BREAK-IN TIME. LOOK AT MY MOST RECENT TANKS, ALL IN THE 40'S.
ON SOME INDIVIDUAL TRIPS, I GET OVER 55 MPG. THEN THERE ARE THOSE SHORT, 4 MINUTE, 2 MILE TRIPS THAT DON'T HELP AT ALL!
TO AND FROM WORK EVERY DAY I GET 42 TO 48 MPG.
SOMETIMES I NEED TO TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES AT 65-75 MPH FOR HOURS, AND GET ABOUT 38-40 MPG.
Wayne has wanted me to post my tanks for some time now, so I guess I'll start doing it. Will it be unfair to start reporting after 27,000 miles, when most included break in mileage in their average?
Any thoughts?
IN SHORT. YES! IT WOULD BE UNFAIR. YOU WERE NOT GETTING 40+ MPG THE FIRST FEW WEEKS ( MONTHS? ) YOU HAD YOUR CAR. I TRIED POSTING A "MY CAR AFTER 10,000 MILES" LISTING IN THE DATABASE, AND GOT SHOT DOWN BY WAYNE FOR IT.
ON A DIFFERENT NOTE, I LIVE IN A STATE THAT USES E10 ( SINCE 1988 IN FACT ) AND YOU LIVE IN A STATE WITHOUT E10. DOES THAT MEAN I GET TO ADD 3 MPG TO MY NUMBERS? I THINK NOT, BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW THIS MIGHT GET COMPLICATED....
-John
GaryG
Just looked at the mileage data base to see how many I affended and see you have a 37.3mpg average. Are you not maintaining at least a 42mpg average overall?
I AM NOW, AFTER LEARNING ALL THE TIPS AND TRICKS, AND OF COURSE ENGINE BREAK-IN TIME. LOOK AT MY MOST RECENT TANKS, ALL IN THE 40'S.
ON SOME INDIVIDUAL TRIPS, I GET OVER 55 MPG. THEN THERE ARE THOSE SHORT, 4 MINUTE, 2 MILE TRIPS THAT DON'T HELP AT ALL!
TO AND FROM WORK EVERY DAY I GET 42 TO 48 MPG.
SOMETIMES I NEED TO TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES AT 65-75 MPH FOR HOURS, AND GET ABOUT 38-40 MPG.
Wayne has wanted me to post my tanks for some time now, so I guess I'll start doing it. Will it be unfair to start reporting after 27,000 miles, when most included break in mileage in their average?
Any thoughts?
IN SHORT. YES! IT WOULD BE UNFAIR. YOU WERE NOT GETTING 40+ MPG THE FIRST FEW WEEKS ( MONTHS? ) YOU HAD YOUR CAR. I TRIED POSTING A "MY CAR AFTER 10,000 MILES" LISTING IN THE DATABASE, AND GOT SHOT DOWN BY WAYNE FOR IT.
ON A DIFFERENT NOTE, I LIVE IN A STATE THAT USES E10 ( SINCE 1988 IN FACT ) AND YOU LIVE IN A STATE WITHOUT E10. DOES THAT MEAN I GET TO ADD 3 MPG TO MY NUMBERS? I THINK NOT, BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW THIS MIGHT GET COMPLICATED....
-John
GaryG
Last edited by gpsman1; 08-22-2006 at 08:48 PM.
#17
08-23-2006, 09:27 AM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
John
When I first got my FEH in Feb '05, it was nice and cool, so A/C was not required. Driving low speeds along the coast put me in the 36-41mpg tank average. The subject of this thread is the fuel gauge, but you and I know, it's the inaccurate tank fills that is the real problem. It may have been when I filled up, that I could not get the amount of fuel in the tank that I burned on that tank of gas. Same thing with when I filled up later, I was able to put two extra gallons in, and brought my millage way down for that tank.
Their were only two tank readings during the summer of '05 that I got 29 and 31mpg. At that time, I estimated my overall lifetime mileage at ~38mpg for the first six months of ownership. My wife was driving the FEH more at that time also.
From Sep. '05 till this date, I don't recall any tank below 40mpg, with most tanks being between 44 and 47mpg. I did get a ~55mpg (~300miles) tank, but it was not a full tank burn. Ive had a few tanks in the 52mpg range.
To date, I would estimate my lifetime average at ~43mpg. Starting this fall when thing cool down, I expect my tanks to be between 47-52mpg most of the time. My lifetime average should go up with all things considered also. If I started the fuel data log now, it may cause others to look bad and give up I guess. Maybe the MTE picture on my sig page should be the goal to hit and exceed.
E-10 drops my mileage 5mpg because I can't adjust to it like those that drive with it all the time. Also, "Keep Alive Memory" (KAM) adjust the "Fuel Trim" and oxygen sensors with fuel quality (% alcohol or oxygenates). This seems to effect my mileage after the ethanol is gone. This keeps the ICE running rich for awhile on pure regular gas. Drafting can readjust the KAM as RPM's reduce with speed and load, but the adjustments need to be made throughout the KAM table of engine speed and load.
If your using E-10 all the time, your KAM and fuel trim are stable most likely. Your driving style has adjusted with this stable fuel trim, so I wouldn't know what your reduced mileage could be.
GaryG
When I first got my FEH in Feb '05, it was nice and cool, so A/C was not required. Driving low speeds along the coast put me in the 36-41mpg tank average. The subject of this thread is the fuel gauge, but you and I know, it's the inaccurate tank fills that is the real problem. It may have been when I filled up, that I could not get the amount of fuel in the tank that I burned on that tank of gas. Same thing with when I filled up later, I was able to put two extra gallons in, and brought my millage way down for that tank.
Their were only two tank readings during the summer of '05 that I got 29 and 31mpg. At that time, I estimated my overall lifetime mileage at ~38mpg for the first six months of ownership. My wife was driving the FEH more at that time also.
From Sep. '05 till this date, I don't recall any tank below 40mpg, with most tanks being between 44 and 47mpg. I did get a ~55mpg (~300miles) tank, but it was not a full tank burn. Ive had a few tanks in the 52mpg range.
To date, I would estimate my lifetime average at ~43mpg. Starting this fall when thing cool down, I expect my tanks to be between 47-52mpg most of the time. My lifetime average should go up with all things considered also. If I started the fuel data log now, it may cause others to look bad and give up I guess. Maybe the MTE picture on my sig page should be the goal to hit and exceed.
E-10 drops my mileage 5mpg because I can't adjust to it like those that drive with it all the time. Also, "Keep Alive Memory" (KAM) adjust the "Fuel Trim" and oxygen sensors with fuel quality (% alcohol or oxygenates). This seems to effect my mileage after the ethanol is gone. This keeps the ICE running rich for awhile on pure regular gas. Drafting can readjust the KAM as RPM's reduce with speed and load, but the adjustments need to be made throughout the KAM table of engine speed and load.
If your using E-10 all the time, your KAM and fuel trim are stable most likely. Your driving style has adjusted with this stable fuel trim, so I wouldn't know what your reduced mileage could be.
GaryG
#18
08-23-2006, 11:42 AM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
How about this idea...
In order not to taint the main database, how about both of us keep a running total starting from NOW in our signature line? Each new tank, just change the signature line.
Example: "Starting at 25,000 miles, I've been getting 42.4 MPG over the past 3 tanks and 1255 miles."
Next time change to: "Starting at 25,000 miles, I've been getting xx.x MPG over the past 4 tanks and xxxx miles."
Whacha think?
-John
In order not to taint the main database, how about both of us keep a running total starting from NOW in our signature line? Each new tank, just change the signature line.
Example: "Starting at 25,000 miles, I've been getting 42.4 MPG over the past 3 tanks and 1255 miles."
Next time change to: "Starting at 25,000 miles, I've been getting xx.x MPG over the past 4 tanks and xxxx miles."
Whacha think?
-John
#19
08-24-2006, 10:20 AM
Re: Fuel gauge on FEH inaccurate
I have heard that cars actually use the gas to keep the pumps cool. So that amount under E might not just be for emergencies but be sure there's gas left to cool the pumps. I know a few people that won't let their cars get much below 1/4 tank. They say then the pump might suck up debris at the bottom. Personally, I wait until I get the low fuel warning which means there's at least 4 gals left.
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