Sorry, given the final outcome status I don't think any of us needs to apologize.

The complaining poster initially said "with the FEH in drive and my foot on the brake the engine would die." And then repeated the exact same statement in post # 8.

That, to me, remains SOP, Standard Operating Procedure.

"We" can only operate, offer advice, on what we are told.

 

No, she didn't say the ENGINE died. She said IT died and we all assumed she meant the engine shut off as it is supposed. Not even close to the same thing. We all jumped to conclusions and I felt I owed her an apology.

I'm big enough to admit when I am wrong and will apologize when necessary. That is MY SOP......

 

If we're going to parse things...

Perfectly normal so far, right...?

Isn't this SOP...?


"....it does this...." Seemingly referring too:

Starts, idles, and then turns off.

So now when all is said and done, and NOTHING was found wrong with the subject FEH, we are expected to believe that "turns" off means something other than the grammatically correct, obvious, and the perfectly contextually logical "stops idling".

I don't think ANY of my long ago English teachers would buy into that and neither will I from a contextual viewpoint.

 

whatever dude.

You obviously know more about the FEH than any of us who actually OWN one so I certainly can't convince someone with such intellect and knowledge that they were wrong. But you were. Admit it.

A dead car is not, no matter how much you parse, edit, rewrite or revise, Standard Operating Proedure as you keep spewing. Dead is dead. She couldn't drive it. It had to be towed. They upgraded the software and it works fine now. End of story.

Think I'll go troll the Prius board and tell them over there how little they know.

 

nitamjr:

Don't do that, it's not your style. I was wondering though, does the Prius have an IRS rear end and if there are plans for a 4WD version?

I guess what really impresses me with the FEH/MMH is the interest the engineers have in the owners. Lots of stories of flying out for a look-see, very cool.

Take Care,
Steve
Oregon

 

Yes, I consider it very highly likely that I know more about the FEH/MMH product than does most owners, possibly even more than many Ford "certified" technicians. Not such a big deal/claim when keeping in mind that most owners don't even bother to read the owners manual. Whereas I not only read them I ALWAYS do so before I make a buy decision. And for every car I have ever owned or my company has owned I have purchased the factory repair/shop manual set.

A few weeks ago the Mercury salesman seemed quite taken aback when I said I wanted the owners manual and some time in a quiet corner to read it before taking a test drive in the 2007 MMH.

But please remember that I was far from the only one (***) that read the initial post and some of the following ones to mean that what was being described in those early posts was simply SOP.

But additionally no one will EVER convince me that in the process of performing a diagnostic analysis that a software update, firmware reflash happened by "default".

That just simply is NOT the way these things are designed to work.

Can you imagine how an analysis would proceed if the technician did not know, nor could easily discover, which firmware version was installed in a given vehicle?

So, IMMHO the vehicle was returned to the owner with exactly the same firmware version it arrived with at the dealer.

But in the end, skipping over what was actually stated in the early posts, the real question is "Did the complete FEH engine/hybrid control system "die" simultaneous with what would otherwise appear to have been a standard, normal, SOP, ICE shutdown cycle?".

Quite possibly, highly unlikely, but absolutely a possibility.

But at this point there is really no way to know other than believe what the owner later posted after "we" interpreted the original posts as indicating correct, SOP, ICE operation.

And that's the way I would write the "rest of the story".

Oh, while you're over at the Prius thread if anyone needs access to a full set of 2003 Prius repair/shop manuals I have a set available. Or if specific questions on other Toyota/Lexus models or model years come up I have an annual subscription to the online document set, techinfo-toyota.com.

***WOW. Just went back and looked at post #4 and your own initial analysis was exactly the same as mine. So you interpreted the posters statement in exactly the same way, manner, as did I.

Then why the change of mind...?

Why are you now attacking me for making essentially the same statement you yourself made?

 

Willard, strange things can happen on the assembly line when you run out of parts (PCM's). This happen on my FEH and I got autolock on my '05 that was only offerred on the '06. The system had a meltdown and stopped working.

Ford does not like to admit mistakes, but it does sould like the PCM was not programmed to work with hardware on the '07 model. If they reflashed the PCM, more than likely they had to download the newer '07 PCM data from the method I discussed earlier in this thread. I agree, it was no simple automatic process by hooking up the diagnostic tool.

If you look back in the beginning of this thread, I held back in jumping in as this being a SOP as you put it for a reason. While this person does have the knowledge as some of us about cars, she is much smarter than you are giving her credit for I think. Everything she said is possible except the auto hook up part which I think was a miscommunication. My wife would have never understood as much as she has communicated to us.

GaryG

 

I have absolutely no problem with what was actually said in those early posts. Insofar as it went it was most properly stated, so much so that a number of us concluded that what she was describing was not untypical of the FEH/MMH. What apparently has happened is that I refused to apologize, back down, from the failure analysis, or lack of failure, I made based on an unintentionally incomplete, ambiguous, statement of what was happening.

IMMHO no apology was needed, required, because the analysis we made was perfectly correct given the information available at the time. No one, and I do mean no one, said anything like, "well, you idiot, that's the way the thing works." Had such a statement, or the like, been made then of course an apology would have been warranted and surely forthcoming. The closest anyone came to an insult was nitramjr's "tongue in cheek" statement.

By the way, the wording in the early posts are not unlike the way I might have made the statements now that I am aware of the true meaning behind the words.

I might not have known, initially, to more adequately define "will only idle for about 30 seconds and then turn off " until I saw the responses and realized that "will only idle for about 30 seconds and then the entire hybrid system turns off" would have more definitively defined the circumstance.


And that's exactly what happened within the latter portion of post #8.

It is sometimes very hard to convey the thoughts in our mind into words that truly convey those thoughts to a third party. We can read and re-read and our mind will fill in the blanks automatically even when words are sometimes missing, let alone actual "meanings".

 

People don't like to admit mistakes... hence this thread.

And I must have missed a pronoun or some clue as I didn't assume the OP is female. I am, but I'm not the OP. OP's name is shown to be "Willard" but I guess maybe I missed that it was his wife/significant other posting?

/confuzzled (confused + puzzled)

 

I'm Willard West, Woodinville WA, male, 66 years old. My registered email belows to my wife so if that is accessable the her name will turn up.