View Poll Results: What is the most likely cause of most of the cases of unintended acceleration?
Floor mats sliding over the accelerator
5
11.90%
CTS accelerator system sticking
8
19.05%
Software glitch or something related to the 'drive by wire' system
15
35.71%
Driver error
13
30.95%
Something else
0
0%
Not sure
1
2.38%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

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  #11  
Old 02-02-2010, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

...of course, there was a chart in the article indicating that Ford, Honda, etc. suffered from the same issue.
This is NOT a Toyota specific issue (IMHO).
 
  #12  
Old 02-02-2010, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Originally Posted by haroldo
...of course, there was a chart in the article indicating that Ford, Honda, etc. suffered from the same issue.
This is NOT a Toyota specific issue (IMHO).
And another interesting thing about that chart is the more recent and sharper and more numerous spike in the Toyota plot, both compared to the prior Toyota numbers and also compared to the other manufacturers, suggesting:

Problems of the past apparently diminished (floor mats?)
There is something new here.
It is recent, sudden and severe.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAnd............We're still looking for ANY reports at all of Camry Hybrid specific unintended acceleration not attributed to the floor mats.
 
  #13  
Old 02-02-2010, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Actually, the spike is normal and is to be expected...it's a result of the publicity.
If you experience UA...and there was no publicity surrounding the event, chances are after you calm down, you'll tell a few friends, maybe your mechanic, but you might not report it to the appropriate authorities.
Now, fast forward to the media circus surrounding Toyota/Lexus as a result of last year's event. Hundreds of people who drive a similar vehicle, who would otherwise have remained silent, all show up at the dealers complaining about UA.
There was no spike in the number of events, but rather a spike in the number of times the event was being reported.


Of course, IMHO
 
  #14  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Originally Posted by haroldo
Actually, the spike is normal and is to be expected...it's a result of the publicity.
If you experience UA...and there was no publicity surrounding the event, chances are after you calm down, you'll tell a few friends, maybe your mechanic, but you might not report it to the appropriate authorities.
Now, fast forward to the media circus surrounding Toyota/Lexus as a result of last year's event. Hundreds of people who drive a similar vehicle, who would otherwise have remained silent, all show up at the dealers complaining about UA.
There was no spike in the number of events, but rather a spike in the number of times the event was being reported.


Of course, IMHO
Larry,

That's a good point, and I actually share your intuition on that, but I avoided posting so, because it is, after all, speculation.

And speaking of speculation, I would also characterize most of the responses to this poll as such - at least as specifically applied to the Camry Hybrid, and so long as we do not receive any response to the question:

"Does anyone know of ANY reports of unintended acceleration (UA)- specifically on the Camry Hybrid - attributed to any cause other than the floor mats ?"
 
  #15  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Consumer Reports magazine examined all complaints of unintended acceleration for 2008 model cars filed with NHTSA before 8-22-09. They stopped on that date because it was the date of the San Diego Lexus crash and they knew that the publicity would generate more complaints, a portion of them bogus.

Unknown to them was the influence of the Internet in which these complaints have circulated for some time. In any case, Toyota, with 16% of the market, had 41% of the complaints; Ford, with a 14% market share, had 28%. Why no attention directed at Ford?

At this point, I'm unsure whether Toyota has found the cause of the problem or simply found a part that needs to be repaired. Of the 15,000 or so parts on the car, I'm sure the gas pedal assembly isn't the only part that fails under certain circumstances.
 

Last edited by lzc; 02-03-2010 at 10:05 AM.
  #16  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Originally Posted by lzc
... Why no attention directed at Ford? ...
Ford's a UAW (connected at the hip to the current administration) shop...Toyota's union free.
Coincidence?
 

Last edited by haroldo; 02-03-2010 at 10:04 AM.
  #17  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

>>>Toyota's union free. [except at NUMI]

Yes, I noticed that Toyota is getting 100% of the blame for closing the NUMI plant in Fremont, Calif., while GM, who used bankruptcy to walk away from it, gets a pass.
 
  #18  
Old 02-03-2010, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Originally Posted by lzc
Consumer Reports magazine examined all complaints of unintended acceleration for 2008 model cars filed with NHTSA before 8-22-09.
Here is a link to CR's analysis. I don't believe you have to be a subscriber to view this, since it's part of their blog:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...s-ford-gm.html

Also, does anybody have a link to the WSJ article online? I googled it but couldn't find it.
 
  #19  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Originally Posted by JoeRemix
...Also, does anybody have a link to the WSJ article online? I googled it but couldn't find it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...s_us_section_b



Focus Now Turns to Toyota's Fix
Some Car Owners Question Whether Their Acceleration Incidents May Have Had Other Causes
By Kate Linebaugh, Josh Mitchell and Daisuke Wakabayashi

Toyota Motor Corp. has started shipping a fix to auto dealers for the sticking gas pedals that have been linked to sudden acceleration in some of its vehicles, and said it is confident this repair and another one involving floor mats will end the speed-control problem.

"These two fixes solve the issues that we know of," Jim Lentz, president of Toyota's U.S. sales arm, said in a conference call Monday with reporters. "We have done exhaustive testing, and we have found no evidence of problems with the electronics."

Toyota last week had to halt production and U.S. sales of eight models in response to rising concerns that the vehicles could suddenly speed up on their own. It has issued two recalls totaling about six million vehicles to replace floor mats that can get jammed against the gas pedals, and gas pedals that can develop a tendency to get stuck in an open-throttle position.

Mr. Lentz apologized for the recall and acknowledged it was embarrassing for a company that built its reputation on the reliability of its vehicles.

The gas pedals in question are electronic devices that use sensors to measure how hard and fast the driver is depressing or letting up on the accelerator. They send electronic signals that cause the engine to run faster or slower. Years ago, gas pedals used a cable that was physically linked to the engine and opened or closed the throttle mechanically.

Despite Toyota's announcement of a solution, fresh reports of sudden-acceleration incidents continued to crop up from car owners involving vehicles not included in the recalls, raising questions about whether the company has identified all of the factors that could cause unintended acceleration.

Toyota said it investigates all reports of unintended acceleration it receives. "There are new cases every day when someone reports unintended acceleration. The level of awareness now is so high," said Toyota spokesman John Hanson. "We are in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding a remedy. It is to our benefit and our customers' benefit to investigate all claims of unintended acceleration."

Last week in Rockford, Ill., Tino Oldani was backing his 2008 Toyota Prius hybrid into his driveway when its engine revved suddenly and the car crashed into the back of his garage, he said in an interview.

Mr. Oldani said he shifted the vehicle into drive and the Prius bolted out of the garage and stopped in a ditch, leaving minor damage to its bumper.

The vehicle doesn't have floor mats, he said, and the Prius isn't on Toyota's recall list for the gas-pedal fix.

Mr. Oldani said he took his Prius to his dealer, and was told there were no reported problems with the Prius. "I am not looking at going after Toyota and having punitive damages. I just wanted to report that I had a problem," Mr. Oldani said. "My kids and wife drive the car. And we could kill somebody."

Last month, Greg Cain, a 59-year-old retired school teacher, was pulling his 2003 Toyota Camry into a parking space at Prospect Grocery in Cleveland, Tenn. The car, he said, jolted forward with such force that it broke through the supermarket's cement-block wall, leaving a four-foot by four-foot hole.

Like Mr. Oldani's Prius, the 2003 Camry lacked floor mats, he said. And it isn't among the model years for Camrys covered by Toyota's gas-pedal recall.

Some cases of sudden acceleration are the result of the driver mistakenly hitting the gas instead of the brake.

Mr. Cain said his car left skid marks on the pavement, indicating he was pressing the brake pedal when the incident happened. The owner of Prospect Grocery, Johnny Collins, confirmed the marks.

Toyota spokesman Mike Michels declined to comment on the particular case. Mr. Michels noted that skid marks could come from braking or acceleration and that at low speeds the torque of the brakes is far greater than that of an engine. Without a deeper analysis, Mr. Michels said it is difficult to determine what happened.

The problem of gas pedals that get stuck led Toyota in January to recall 2.3 million vehicles, stop production for a week at most of its North American plants and halt sales of eight models, including the Corolla.

Late last year the company announced its largest-ever recall, which grew to 5.4 million vehicles, due to gas pedals getting stuck by mats. On Monday, Toyota said it would focus on getting the repair parts in consumer vehicles before resuming sales of the affected models.

The fix will be sent to dealers "if not late Tuesday then Wednesday," said Mr. Lentz, who added the dealers will extend hours, work weekends and in some cases be open every hour of the day to fix cars.

"It's only about a 30-minute repair, so with time to get the car in, the customer is probably looking at a total wait time of 60 to 90 minutes," said John McEleney, president of Southgate Motors in Clinton, Iowa.

Questions about whether Toyota found all the causes of sudden acceleration were raised Monday by a former chief of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Nicole Nason said in an interview that unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles came under close scrutiny in 2007, and the company repeatedly said the issue was related only to floor mats getting jammed against the gas pedals.

Toyota now says that some models involved in those complaints were equipped with faulty accelerator pedals. "Now they're saying, 'Same exact result, but completely different problem,'" said Ms. Nason. "There seem to be an awful lot of coincidences here."

Toyota maintains it never misled regulators and that it properly responded to potential safety problems.

Some analysts say the immediate impact of Toyota's recalls and sales stoppages could cost the company around $1 billion, but the longer-term damage to the auto maker's brand could be much larger.

Analysts say Toyota could be forced to spend considerable amounts on advertising, sales incentives and legal bills.

Automotive Lease Guide, a Santa Barbara, Calif.-based company that tracks the residual value of cars and brand values, believes Toyota's perceived quality score could fall 20%, leading to a 4% drop in the residual value of its cars, if it doesn't resolve the situation quickly and without further recalls.

Toyota may have to put aside more reserves if the value of autos coming off leases—residual value—declines. A fall in residual value also lowers the amount of money consumers get at trade-in or when they sell a used car.

While Toyota hasn't disclosed the impact from the production and sales halt, along with related recalls in Europe and China, the company's market value has dropped 18%, or 2.55 trillion yen, ($28.2 billion) since it issued a second recall for the acceleration problems Jan. 21.

Kurt Sanger, a car analyst at Deutsche Bank in Tokyo, said Toyota's halt of about 60% of its North American plant capacity and the sales stoppage of eight models could cost it up to 18,600 vehicle sales a week.
 
  #20  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Poll - What's the cause of Unintended Acceleration?

Thanks to Joe for posting the link to the CR. I tried it successfully; so, it apparently does not require a subscription. A good read !

And thanks to Larry for posting the WSJ article link. I tried it successfully as well; so, apparently neither does it require a subscription.

I read the article on paper, but was about to investigate a link for the benefit of others. Larry apparently found it.

I infer that the Camry mentioned in the article was not a Hybrid; so we're still looking for the first report of a Camry Hybrid UA problem attributed to anything other than the floor mat(s).
 

Last edited by Smilin' Jack; 02-03-2010 at 04:14 PM. Reason: completeness x 2


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