I really appreciate all of the information that you have given me. I have never sat in a Camry so really have no idea what I am in for.

Karen thanks for the links I will try and look for them today.

Burt your info sounds very promising as I had a Five Hundred as a loaner and was comfortable in it. My number one concern/requirement is tied between gas mileage and leg room since I drive an hour one way to work.

Bill and Tideland thanks for the information on the radio. It is not a deal breaker but if I have options I would like to get the best sounding system I can.

Pete I saw on Toyota's site when building a vehicle that for my area if I go with cloth there are two packages to go with and if I go with leather there are 4. My driving habits aren't that great right now....but that's by choice. As you obviously have been in the situation where you have a lot of power below you and can't resist the urge to use it. I have no urge to continue on that trend for several reasons.....money and safety. I know that if I go with this car that my driving habits will change. I don't know about the dvd player I may consider that but the "family" vehicle is a 2005 Ford Freestar with leather, dvd and the power sliders. It's great going places in it and having the entertainment for my son. However, sometimes he has to listen to mommy and daddy's music.....or the Cubs game!!!!


Once again I do really appreciate all of the information and if the car is as good as everyone here on the forum makes it sound I'm sure it won't take much to make me want to get it....the the hard part comes with parting with the money.

Any tips on bargaining with the dealer? One site or post I read in the wee hours of the morning said to trying asking for the invoice price and paying full cost for the options? Does this sounds feasible/reasonable/sane?

 

This is the first I have heard of that. Are you sure? I can't see why that would be the case.

 

It really is that good. My brother called me from his cell phone about 30 minutes after borrowing my car for the first time last night. He said "I don't think you will be getting your car back." My first thought was, crud, he wrecked it already. Then he said, "It is just too darned nice!"

I never really thought much of my TCH beyond just "comfortable and quiet." Now that I have driven my Mom's civic I appreciate the TCH a little more. It's all relative.

As far as negotiating, that is much more complex. Look at sites like edmunds.com and kbb.com and educate yourself. I think there are many more TCHs on the car lots now, and play one dealer against another for the best deal if you can. I sold my trade-in to car-max the same day I bought my TCH and highly recommend them--no games, a pure joy. Also, if your employer has any employee purchase programs you may be able to get a deal via that route. I think my employer had a "3% over invoice" deal, but I can't remember if that was for toyota or honda. Also, if you go the "X over invoice" route, learn about hold backs (dealer incentives).

 

I just checked their website and it is about a 1 inch difference. The roof height is only different between the non-moon and with moon not by trim level.

Head room
without moonroof
with moonroof

Front/Back
38.8/37.8
37.9/37.4 [6]

38.8/37.8
37.9/37.4

38.8/37.8
37.9/37.4

NA
37.9/37.4

38.8/37.8 <--------Hybrid Without
37.9/37.4 <-------- Hybrid with

 

One more "big" guy, I'm 6'3", 250 (currently!! hehe), and I've had mine for over a year (6/17/06) and I'm still in love with my car!

I got mine with moonroof and mats as the only "options", a year ago. No leather, no NAV, none of that. I have absolutely no problem with space, though I don't travel in the back so I don't know how much space there is back there. But I didn't try to get this package, I just wanted a basic package, but the first one coming in (within a week) had the moonroof, and I risked waiting another week with a rental if I wanted the same car but no moonroof. I decided to splurge, and I love it (yesterday was a perfect drive with the moonroof wide open!).

Stereo... I'm no audiophile, there are people who complain about subtle inadequacies, but personally I'm very happy with my stereo. No NAV so I have 6 CD in-dash changer, but I've had the same 2 mp3 CDs in my car for probably a year now. I could have over 1500 tracks loaded at once if I wanted!

Seats... I've never had leather so I can't really say about that, but I really like the cloth seats. That might be one to consider your own needs and preferences on--check out the cloth and decide for yourself.

Oh and headroom, I've never had the slightest problem with headroom. I usually drive alone, or occasionally with one passenger (rarely more), so I don't worry about how far back my seat is, but I've got it adjusted so I'm very comfortable. Plenty of room for my legs, my head, comfortable lumbar support....

And MPG, yeah as long as you're prepared to really enjoy the hybrid aspect of your car, I expect you'll do fine. I never worried about the mileage of my car that much before, but now you have so many ways to track it in this car, and _reasons_ to, that as long as you pay attention to the feedback (instant FE gauge, MFD trip FE graph and tank FE total; NAV I expect has even more) you're going to learn how to take it easy and get a lot of enjoyment out of driving with good mileage--enough to want to keep doing better.

You're not down south though so expect winter months to give you a FE hit. A month or two of cold weather are why I'm down at 36 mpg lifetime--now I'm getting solidly up over 40 (mid-40s even sometimes) consistently, so hopefully I can bring it up a bit... and maybe I've learned enough to help improve my numbers next winter?

But seriously 1 year, and a month and a half with my car, and I'm as excited as ever about how much I love it. Great mileage, very comfortable, good sound, amazingly smooth drive, even using gas it's so smooth and quiet! I hope I can find rental TCHs next time I travel! My last Altima rental annoyed me with how rough and noisy it was--with 2k miles on the odometer!

Definitely try the car out, take your time adjusting the driver's seat to find a position that really makes it work for you.

Then buy it and love it!


ps--oh yeah, and 2007 or 2008? Sounds like 08 is going to be stripped down of a lot of included pluses from the 2007, so if you want them you might save on a 2007. Especially since if you buy soon you can still get the $650 tax credit (if you qualify?) and you _ought_ to be able to negotiate down from MSRP (which I couldn't last summer, it was MSRP or someone else got that car). So there would seem to be some real benefits to picking up an 07 rather than waiting (not to mention enjoying it that much sooner, and using that much less gas!), but what benefits there might be for getting the 08 are much less clear still.

 

I start with invoice and all options at invoice. Remember, its the options where the dealer really makes the money. I remember on some older domestics the car radio's were a 60% markup to msrp.

I kept my options really simple on this car. Heated mirrors, that only work when the rear defroster is in use. I also paid for the factory mats. My wife took them out and replaced them with some gray rubber backed rugs. Kind of like a doorway rug. They fit right in and were only $6 each from walmart. She likes to put the originals back in when we trade or sell the car.

I offered $400 over invoice and the manager doing the dealing said we can do that. I later found his invoice was a few hundred high than what the auto sites showed. Added advertising fee, some kind of loan fee where they pay for the car you purchase. I found some info on that at the edmunds site.

Anyway they drove my 500. Came back saying there a popular rent car and the auctions are full of them. I got upset as mine was the nicer SEL with leather and a few other nice accessories. I saw $15K on edmunds and kbb.com/ Ford had offered me $14K trade for there new Taurus. I got to thinking gas mileage and the increasing gas prices. Not easy but I finally got the toyota manager up to $13K for the trade. We were at $12900 on my car. I ask my wife to get here things, where leaving. He agreed to the $13K.

I live in new mexico so there is no tax here for a hybrid if it shows something like over 30 mpg. Also theres the $650 tax credit from the government which we have not looked into yet. I may have got a better deal if I had slept on it. You know, leave then come back, leave again and come back. Sometimes they can give you a better deal. There afraid you will sign with another dealer. I try to use a serious game face when I buy. They see you get excited over there new car, they can take advantage of that. Sales managers are experts at reading people and at negotiating. Be relaxed and try to get the lowest deal possible. My wife says just use the lowest difference dealer or should I say drive-out price. I guess she is right, get there then try to make offers lower than there quote.

Some dealers will have some add-on paint coating which I think is a non-was glaze. The cars on the lost had the dealers separate sticker charging $699 for that. No way would I consider paying anything for that. Most just knock it right off. I bought some new? stuff in a orange can and did the car my self for $6. Easy to put on a section at a time and even easier to wipe off using a moist rag.

I usually clean up my trade-in car. Inside and out including a spotless trunk. Some say it don't matter but I figure the cleaner the better. You can buy some matching color touch up paint from Autozone or the dealer and try to fix any blemishes. I find the used car people can really cut down your car on anything they see that would hurt the resale. I traded a 2003 corolla a few cars ago. They spotted that the front left fender had been replaced. I had forgot all about that. A kid had backed in to me at a grocery store in a heavy rain. The manager had pulled my car up on the "cars history" they subscribe to on their computer. All it takes is the VIN number.

The Ford people were $450 under the edmunds/ kbb price for the trade. It seems they forgot to pay me for my cars powered moonroof. I did not catch that till I got home that night. Like I say there tricky, use caution and go slow when dealing. I take a notebook and calculator when i'm at the dealers. Try to over deal with the salesperson. I hate that, "make a offer" then they go tell the manager, trying to wear you down so you will sign at there price. When buying package or options, looks like you get back about 50% of your original investment if the car is a one to three years old. I guess that varies though.

I never put down any deposit till its a done deal on buying the car. Here, we paid the $500 they wanted. You can ask to make the deal refundable and put a possible note to refuse the car if it has not arrived by a particular date. We made ours at 5 weeks due to them ordering one from Kentucky. It's one of the last 2007's to be built. I never did find when the 2008 switchover date was. We wanted white exterior with gray interior. We live in a rather hot part of southern new mexico so the white is a little cooler.

It was up to us to stay with them or not after that refundable date. That was my wifes idea. I had read years ago that some domestics would "hold out" a customer for months keeping him from buying from some other dealer while keeping there deposit. It was something like that, I don't recall all the details. The the car arrived on a convoy truck only 3 days before our July 31 cancellation date.

I'm glad to be back in a Toyota car. Now I have a good car to trade or sell. It's a nice riding, really quiet, high gas mileage car to keep for many years if I want. If in the future they come out with a 5 mpg jump in the gas mileage, then I would consider one of those.

I forgot to mention i'm a big guy at 6' 4" at 300 lbs. I was impressed to see they now have a lumbar power adjustment for the drivers side seat. Its the little button to the right of the other power seat adjustments.

I just saw on CNN that JD Powers said, that hybrids were selling really fast, despite talk of falling hybrid sales.

Burt

 

Well we went to the dealer for a test drive. I am definitely getting one of these. Let me just say LEG ROOM!!! I could put my left leg just to the side of the break pedal and stick it straight out!!!! that's better than my Bonneville. The vehicle I drove was the "base" TCH but I wouldn't consider it a base model. I didn't even bother to look at the fully loaded version as I know I couldn't afford it right now. The sticker price was $27049. After the test drive, I drove both highway and city traffic, we sat down to talk about numbers. Ended up going all the way through the GM (3rd guy to sit with us). They only wanted to give me $7500 for my Bonneville while I owe $11k on it still, Kelly Blue Book trade in ranges are $10,100 $9315 and $8360. 1 month ago I went to CarMax and they offered me $10k for it(which was the middle price at the time). The dealr also didn't want to budge from the sticker price. I had gotten a couple of quotes via the internet today during work and 1 of the was on the same level car for $25,500. I told the dealer that and they couldn't believe it. I told them I had it in writing. Well needless to say After 2 hrs we left.....no TCH under my butt. I did sit in a fully loaded XLE and really liked the way it felt. I think I am going to save up between now and Christmas and work on some bills and then go back for the loaded TCH. The information you guys gave me on this car was spot on!!! Thank you very much. I caught myself watching the "realtime guage" (I forget what it was called) and can see first hand how addictive it can be to keep that need in the higher range.. Well I will definately stick around the forums here and keep doing my research. Thank you once again for your help. I don't want to rush into this and don't want to settle for something I am going to drive for 6 years or so.

 

I was told that at the dealer about the hybrid's roof being a inch lower then the standard camry. I figure if so that was maybe due to the windshield tilt to improve the highway gas mileage. That was verbal from the salesperson. I saw nothing in print other than the salesperson also mentioning the moonroof may be a little lower. I was concerned due to my height. Someone put the actual headroom measurements in this thread. Looks like its a minimal difference. I never did compare the two windshields.

 

I put the numbers in. They were straight from Toyota's website and didn't copy and paste over like they were on the site. It was only an inch difference. I sat in the TCH without the Sunroof and the XLE with it and I had plenty of room in each.

 

Try a Altima before you decide.