The concept of gliding _does_ including losing speed. Pulse & Glide involves bringing the speed up to 40 mph then letting it glide and slow down to around 30mph. Then you repeat the process.

I agree with this concept and practice it. However an earlier poster indicates that they want to see the "no arrows" on the consumption screen and that they also are able to "keep up" with traffic during this 'glide". I don't believe that part is a part of the pulse and glide expectation

 

So are you saying that for the glide portion, you use the battery?

 

The 'Glide' part of P&G is involving the battery/e-motor. That's your goal to induce the ICE to turn down/shutoff as often as possible....

Long post to follow..

 

Steve in reponse to your inquiry about mileage expectations/tecniques: (Originally posted on the Edmunds Camry Hybrid forum)

Much of this has been covered in the Prius and HH forums but since the TCH is new I thought I'd summarize what drivers might expect in this very interesting area.

First some oft-heard statements/myths:
you can refer to post # 2890 on the Hybrid Highlander by cdtrap wherein he summarized many points of misinformation. Not all apply to the TCH but enough do.

EPA Estimates / testing methodology
You can go to the EPA website to see how they do the testing but at present the tests are based on 30 y.o. assumptions. If you drive moderately you will approach/attain EPA values. Moderately doesn't mean poking along. Normal suburban driving near a mall or on a 40 mph heavily travelled road will be the 'sweet spot' for your fuel economy. On New Years day on flat terrain in 55 deg weather with no wind ( must specify conditions ) I was able to attain a combined 65 mpg in my Prius while out for a 'Sunday drive' looking for a specific store at about 35 mph on average.

Highway driving at 55 seems to be the most efficient. For the new TCH one should attain just about 37 mpg ( EPA estimate ) at this speed. For every 10 mph faster above 55 you will lose FE; e.g. at about 65 you may show a FE of ~33 mpg; at 75 mph you may show a FE of under 30 mpg. Why? Increased drag kills the FE for all vehicles above 75 mph. Also in keeping this speed you are riding the ICE almost all the time not giving it a chance to turn off.

Turning off/turning down the ICE
This is the one of the most ingenious traits of the HSD system and it's mainly dependent on the driver. As the controller of input ( your brain, foot and pedal ), the driver can induce the ICE to turn off/down while driving during which time little or no fuel is burned. Pretty basic. As noted above if you are racing at 75 mph nearly all the time you are just driving an ICE 2.4L Camry. Drag and driver input will keep your FE low. But if you have to drive like this due to conditions then you have to. Be safe.

Using 'pulse and glide' in any situation whether 65 mph on the highway or 25 mph in the city can turn off or turn down the ICE and allow you to save fuel. Use it. It's easy and causes no disruptions at all if done correctly.

If however you have a choice of routes and the time then consider not taking the highway. What many have found is that giving up the bustle of highway driving by using suburban roads at more moderate speeds is a) more relaxing and b) more fuel efficient.

Anticipation:
This is linked to driver input. If you are in a situation such as a suburban road or highway where you see a blockage or traffic light up ahead where you will likely slow or stop then let off the pedal as early as possible while still being safe. When you let off the pedal you turn off the ICE and 'glide' to a stop ( not burning any fuel ). This also saves wear on the breaks and is in fact more relaxing. Stipulation: you do have to use the brakes to come to a dead stop.. use common sense.

Weather conditions:
Fortuitiously the TCH is coming now when the weather is mild. During Winter months expect the FE to deteriorate by about 10%. The same is true of rough weather at other times ( think riding a bike in windy conditions ). EPA weather conditions: tests done in a laboratory at ~72 deg with a fully warmed up engine.

Your personal real world FE rating:
One of the most misunderstood statements regarding the EPA FE ratings is the Combined rating. The EPA is not a rigorous scientific body. It's results have to be utilized in a political environment. Thus in the case of the Prius it's ratings are 60 City - 51 Highway - 55 Combined. The EPA just makes a 55/45 assumption about the 'typical' driver's mix of driving. But what if you are not typical? My own is 85% highway @ 60 mph and 15% 'city' @ 40 mph. To be exact one should take the weighted average in order to get a correct 'combined' value. Mine is 52.5 mpg in EPA weather condtions.

Short trips kill FE for all vehicles.
If your normal driving pattern is short hops either to work or around town then the ICE/exhaust system never has a chance to get up to it's most efficient temperature. Everytime you stop and turn off the motor then the engine cools and everything must be started again. In this case you are driving a normal ICE 4c Camry in the most disadvantageous City conditions. Be honest with yourself in the type of driving you might be doing.

Now combine all these variables into a single algorithm describing your personal driving. It can be done.

For example:
Winter driving against a strong northerly headwind at 75 mph on a just recently plowed roadway ( Minn commute? ).
Your fuel economy might be in the 30 mpg range or lower.

Take a Sunday drive looking as houses cruising through various neighborhoods now in springtime. You might attain 45 mpg!

 

Fuel Economy results on the new TCH

Further to my post below I've noticed some interesting aspects in the actual results reported by first time drivers.

1. The EPA values on the TCH

On the first 3 HSD vehicle there was approximately a 15% difference between City and Hwy EPA values; e.g. 60 / 51 on the Prius II. On the TCH this difference has been reduced to about 5% at 40 / 38. Hmmm curious. Why?

There has been a firestorm of press and individual reports about how 'the hybrids never reach EPA estimates in FE'. In fact if one is able to drive according to EPA criteria one will get the same values as does the EPA. It's just not realistic to drive this way in today's world.

Factors such as weather and highspeed driving are not taken into account presently in EPA testing. Both of these factors seriously impact FE in in every vehicle. When gas is $1.50/gal and the average FE of an SUV is 14 mpg who gives a hoot about winter or highspeed driving. However when fuel is $3.00+/gal and a vehicle is touted to get 55 mpg combined now many do give a HOOT when it actually only gets 45 mpg combined @ 70 mph in winter.

As noted elsewhere by nbalthaser the FE testing is actually done by the automakers and is verified and certified by the EPA. As long as the testing is done accurately a manufacturer could report lower values if it felt these were realistic. ( The EPA will be will be changing it's own testing procedures for the 2008 MY ).

2.) The initial reports of drivers is that the TCH is seems to be attaining its EPA values.

Subject to individual weighted averages on combined driving it seems that the new TCH is often right at the EPA numbers - even when being driven at 70 mph!! This is unique and seems to fly in the face of the laws of physics. At 70 mph there is significantly more drag on every vehicle but reports seems to show 38 mpg being attained quite often. The database is small now so more points have to be entered but this is 'interesting' lets say.

Hypothesis: The Camry is the flagship of Toyota here. Taking care of it's image is vitally important. With the knowledge gained from the Prius' and the HH, I believe that Toyota has made sure that the EPA values for FE are realistic and attainable by nearly every driver under normal conditions.

The database herein will verify my supposition.

 

I don't see what the big deal is on gliding. The TCH can go a very good distance when coasting, even with regen on, and very little electricity is used just maintaining 30-40 mph, especially if you pulse.

 

Bob, enjoy the knowledge you share on this and Edmund$%#^.com

I might add for beginners , I'm an old pro at 2700 miles, don't pay any attention to the FE numbers on a new tank the first 50 or so miles. It's discouraging but it takes a few good trips to wipe out 1 bad one to obtain an overall high average. Sitting in the parking lot to pull out starts you out with a low FE number. It amazes me sometimes just how low. Without the meter I would never have guessed the number of times I was only getting 5 to 10 mile per gallon for a strech of time.

I have never gotten the highway EPA milages that are advertised with my other vehicles. I have kept milage information religiously for 30 years (it's a curse). My last vehicle, the Infiniti FX45 averaged 16.3 overall. I never got worse than 15.5 but I never got better than 17.5. It's supposed to get 19 highway. Yes I did drive fast pretty much all the time. In the TCH I drive more reasonable. It's a "hobby" for me at this point to reach for the ultimate FE number. Perhaps the game will wear off but for now I'm after the ultimate number. Can't say that's bad, it's made me a better and happier driver and saving a lot of $'s.

Also for new hybrid drivers you need to keep things in perspective by doing a little math. Take time to calculate and see just what the difference is in 36 and 39 mpg over the number of miles you drive each year. You may be surprised that at this high level of FE that the incremental savings is not something that is important to you.
If you can enjoy driving and get 36mpg instead of the old sled getting 16 mpg then it really doesn't matter that you think you should be getting 38.

Finally, for those of you not out to save the world, rather just being frugal ; isn't this just about the coolest way of saving money? I've wasted a lot of money on high dollar cars, trading often and not worrying about FE. I wanted a change and I think a lot of others are just like me. This was a good idea!

 

And the clouds did part and he was engulfed in warm sunshine

Yea, I agree. It is cool stuff! I'm a real technojunky, love it, love it, and it's really nice to see consumer technology that might actually be good, instead of wondering what to do with a river of used cell phones and a mountain of obsolete PCs, etc. I work with computers and I see so much old tech get dumped it really has started to bug me...

I wonder how many tons of CO2 is generated by the factory making these cars? Don't tell me, I'm feeling good about the TCH right now