"You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
#61
09-28-2007, 06:40 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
Um, hate to get back into this, but humans and pets are not the only animals who get cancer or heart disease. Any animal can develop cancer. Anything with a heart can have a heart attack. Racehorses, which eat a vegetarian diet, frequently die of heart problems. So do other large work animals. Birds die of cancer frequently. Although they were my pets, both my childhood parakeets died of cancer. Guess how many steaks they ate in their lives? None. I doubt seriously that the smell of cooking meat killed them.
According to Encarta, the first humanoid (Australopithecus) rose out of the apes who survived the Ice Age. He was a hunter, and, as the earth was still in the Ice Age, there was not much in the way of plant life on which to feed, as it was too cold to grow.
Not all Indians are vegetarians. Perhaps your arguments would be a little more substantial if you'd stop with the blanket statements and more thoroughly thought through what you are trying to say.
According to Encarta, the first humanoid (Australopithecus) rose out of the apes who survived the Ice Age. He was a hunter, and, as the earth was still in the Ice Age, there was not much in the way of plant life on which to feed, as it was too cold to grow.
Not all Indians are vegetarians. Perhaps your arguments would be a little more substantial if you'd stop with the blanket statements and more thoroughly thought through what you are trying to say.
Yes, nothing is absolute.
Sorry, about your parakeets, but cancer isn't natural. Maybe the birdfeed had toxins in it.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I'm just looking for heathy debate and an expansion of ideas.
#62
09-28-2007, 06:43 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
I know im gonna get heat for this. The times of squatting in the woods (to eat fruit/nuts and to use the bathroom) are gone. Evolution happened. Nothing against the amish, but most people look at that society and say "wouldnt they be happier if they could use an electric saw or tool? People in poor third world countries look at us and say, man those people are lucky, they have meat. I believe in some countries the animals are worshiped as gods.
I have eaten some pretty strange things in my life such as snails, eel, snake, croc and squash. I don't put down anyone who eats what they like, im just stating that evolution happens. Sometime in the future our meals may be comprised of irradiated trash and we will be happy with it.
I have eaten some pretty strange things in my life such as snails, eel, snake, croc and squash. I don't put down anyone who eats what they like, im just stating that evolution happens. Sometime in the future our meals may be comprised of irradiated trash and we will be happy with it.
#64
09-28-2007, 09:08 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
My statement was tongue-in-cheek, but still I don't know what you mean. The plight of the third world has nothing to do with their meet eating policy.
#65
09-28-2007, 09:12 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
...but didn't someone say it takes less resources to raise crops than livestock with the same amount of nutrition? In light of that, how can areas with more vegans have more famine, all other things being equal?
#66
09-28-2007, 10:39 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
#68
10-01-2007, 03:42 PM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
I know it's tongue-in-cheek, but sorry, you do sound a little nutty. Plenty of people in India eat meat. True, a Hindu diet is one without beef, because the cows are sacred to them, but there are plenty of Muslims and Jains and people of other faiths living in India. Muslims don't eat pork, but as far as I know they're fine with beef or chicken.
In theory, were you not a vegetarian, you could try a nice murg masala or a rogan josh sometime and you'd see that not only do many people there eat meat, but they managed to come up with some mighty tasty ways to cook it. Also, eating no beef or pork or whatever has not stopped them from eating goat and other meats that are not as common in the US.
Also, plenty of vegetarians get cancer or have heart disease. I think you are correct that having less meat in your diet may reduce some of those risks, particularly in terms of heart disease, but saying that cancer somehow isn't 'natural' and that eating meat isn't 'natural' is so laughable that I'm not sure what to say about it. While it is certainly true that animal husbandry is a relatively recent chapter in the lifespan of the human race, that does not mean in any way that ancient humans were all vegetarians before they started herding and domesticating animals.
And even if it did, that would have relatively little bearing on the connection between eating meat and having diseases like cancers and heart disease that kill people later in life. For the vast bulk of the time in which our species has existed on this planet, normal life spans were far too short for those types of late-in-life illnesses, particularly the ones that do not usually kill until after peak childbearing years, to have any impact to speak of on the evolution of our species. Think about it. How can a species genetically select for midlife heart attacks if procreation occurs decades before that kind of diet catches up to people? Maybe there's a slight link, but it's tenuous.
I understand you're trying to provoke discussion, but you seem to have missed a lot.
In theory, were you not a vegetarian, you could try a nice murg masala or a rogan josh sometime and you'd see that not only do many people there eat meat, but they managed to come up with some mighty tasty ways to cook it. Also, eating no beef or pork or whatever has not stopped them from eating goat and other meats that are not as common in the US.
Also, plenty of vegetarians get cancer or have heart disease. I think you are correct that having less meat in your diet may reduce some of those risks, particularly in terms of heart disease, but saying that cancer somehow isn't 'natural' and that eating meat isn't 'natural' is so laughable that I'm not sure what to say about it. While it is certainly true that animal husbandry is a relatively recent chapter in the lifespan of the human race, that does not mean in any way that ancient humans were all vegetarians before they started herding and domesticating animals.
And even if it did, that would have relatively little bearing on the connection between eating meat and having diseases like cancers and heart disease that kill people later in life. For the vast bulk of the time in which our species has existed on this planet, normal life spans were far too short for those types of late-in-life illnesses, particularly the ones that do not usually kill until after peak childbearing years, to have any impact to speak of on the evolution of our species. Think about it. How can a species genetically select for midlife heart attacks if procreation occurs decades before that kind of diet catches up to people? Maybe there's a slight link, but it's tenuous.
I understand you're trying to provoke discussion, but you seem to have missed a lot.
#69
10-02-2007, 07:07 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
leahbeatle,
I appreciate your comments.
We are going to have to disagree on several points. Eating meat is not part of a traditional Indian diet and your local Indian restaraunt is catering to your Western SAD (Standard American Diet).
You can SEE things however you like, but it is my believe that eating processed foods and overeating of meat cause a myriad of diseases. Of course "overeating of meat" is subjective.
I also choose not to eat most meat, because I do not want to support the factory-farm-torture-machine. Lastly, I don't want to support their effect on the environment.
Even if man was meant to chase down and antelope and eat it; do you think he was meant to eat processed meat three times a day?
Did you check out goveg.com or themeatrix.com?
Sorry if you think I am "nutty", "laughable", and "missed the point". Ouch Leah.
I don't beleive in eating meat. Don't tread on me.
nf
“I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.” Mahatma Gandhi
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.” Albert Einstein
“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.” Pythagorus
“It is necessary to correct the error that vegetarianism has made us weak in mind, or passive or inert in action. I do not regard flesh-food as necessary at any stage” Mahatma Gandhi
“Nonviolence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all living beings, we are all savages.” Thomas Edison, inventor
“When a man wants to murder a tiger, he calls it sport; when a tiger wants to murder him, he calls it ferocity.” George Bernard Shaw
“Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them. We live by the death of others. We are burial places! I have since an early age abjured the use of meat...” Leonardo da Vinci, painter, sculptor, poet.
“A dead cow or sheep lying in a pasture is recognized as carrion. The same sort of carcass dressed and hung up in a butcher’s stall passes as food!” J. H. Kellog
“I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve as human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can live without meat...” The Dalai Lama
“He who does not value life does not deserve it.” Leonardo da Vinci
“I hold flesh-food to be unsuited to our species. We err in copying the lower animal world if we are superior to it.” Mahatma Gandhi
I appreciate your comments.
We are going to have to disagree on several points. Eating meat is not part of a traditional Indian diet and your local Indian restaraunt is catering to your Western SAD (Standard American Diet).
You can SEE things however you like, but it is my believe that eating processed foods and overeating of meat cause a myriad of diseases. Of course "overeating of meat" is subjective.
I also choose not to eat most meat, because I do not want to support the factory-farm-torture-machine. Lastly, I don't want to support their effect on the environment.
Even if man was meant to chase down and antelope and eat it; do you think he was meant to eat processed meat three times a day?
Did you check out goveg.com or themeatrix.com?
Sorry if you think I am "nutty", "laughable", and "missed the point". Ouch Leah.
I don't beleive in eating meat. Don't tread on me.
nf “I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.” Mahatma Gandhi
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.” Albert Einstein
“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.” Pythagorus
“It is necessary to correct the error that vegetarianism has made us weak in mind, or passive or inert in action. I do not regard flesh-food as necessary at any stage” Mahatma Gandhi
“Nonviolence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all living beings, we are all savages.” Thomas Edison, inventor
“When a man wants to murder a tiger, he calls it sport; when a tiger wants to murder him, he calls it ferocity.” George Bernard Shaw
“Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them. We live by the death of others. We are burial places! I have since an early age abjured the use of meat...” Leonardo da Vinci, painter, sculptor, poet.
“A dead cow or sheep lying in a pasture is recognized as carrion. The same sort of carcass dressed and hung up in a butcher’s stall passes as food!” J. H. Kellog
“I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve as human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can live without meat...” The Dalai Lama
“He who does not value life does not deserve it.” Leonardo da Vinci
“I hold flesh-food to be unsuited to our species. We err in copying the lower animal world if we are superior to it.” Mahatma Gandhi
#70
10-02-2007, 07:29 AM
Re: "You can't be a meat-eating environmentalist"
"I take a vitamin everyday. It's called a steak." --- Buck Weston
