Reflections on dust-up
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Engineering first
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,613
From: Huntsville, AL
Reflections on dust-up
Hi,
The recent dust-up over Nara Schoenberg's article got me thinking and wondering about the subject of driving style versus hybrid technology. Now folks who do stuff tend to have strong opinions and to some extent, there was a clash of personalities . . . it happens. So a day later, I printed and reviewed the thread to try and understand how it happened and what might have solved the problem. That part remains unanswered beyond a clash of personalities. But I gained insight.
Hybrids attract folks who are inclined towards efficient driving. Before, these drivers were spread across the different makes and models, there was nothing to concentrate them in one area. So it is only natural that when recruiting folks to drive hypermiler style to go fishing here and in other hybrid forums.
Once upon a time, 'hypermiler' meant exceeding the old EPA numbers, an admirable goal easily met by good maintenance and driving EPA style. With the dumb-downed EPA numbers, even that low threshold has all but disappeared. Absent these threshold, the hypermiler goal posts moved and that, sad to say, is lamentable.
Come September, I'll drop the "hypermiler" star from my signature. Come September and the lower EPA ratings, it will have no meaning other than a negative connotation to identify those who don't get one. But I'll keep the CleanMPG pointer in the Prius FAQ for those inclined to that style of driving. No need to stand in the way of their natural inclination.
Over time, we've had to deal with hybrid skeptics who came with ignorance and FUD. In that area, we've probably turned a corner. I'm now expecting a new group of skeptics.
Bob Wilson
The recent dust-up over Nara Schoenberg's article got me thinking and wondering about the subject of driving style versus hybrid technology. Now folks who do stuff tend to have strong opinions and to some extent, there was a clash of personalities . . . it happens. So a day later, I printed and reviewed the thread to try and understand how it happened and what might have solved the problem. That part remains unanswered beyond a clash of personalities. But I gained insight.
Hybrids attract folks who are inclined towards efficient driving. Before, these drivers were spread across the different makes and models, there was nothing to concentrate them in one area. So it is only natural that when recruiting folks to drive hypermiler style to go fishing here and in other hybrid forums.
Once upon a time, 'hypermiler' meant exceeding the old EPA numbers, an admirable goal easily met by good maintenance and driving EPA style. With the dumb-downed EPA numbers, even that low threshold has all but disappeared. Absent these threshold, the hypermiler goal posts moved and that, sad to say, is lamentable.
Come September, I'll drop the "hypermiler" star from my signature. Come September and the lower EPA ratings, it will have no meaning other than a negative connotation to identify those who don't get one. But I'll keep the CleanMPG pointer in the Prius FAQ for those inclined to that style of driving. No need to stand in the way of their natural inclination.
Over time, we've had to deal with hybrid skeptics who came with ignorance and FUD. In that area, we've probably turned a corner. I'm now expecting a new group of skeptics.
Bob Wilson
Hybrid True Believer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 881
From: Baltimore, MD
Re: Reflections on dust-up
The hillarious thing about the new EPA numbers is that my utterly lame driving style could beat the EPA spec. Right. I drive like a total jerk, as e videnced by my 42 MPG. I figured, however, that it's better for the environment to have constant road rage in a hybrid than in a Hummer, ha ha!
Old Boomer Techie
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 572
From: Pacific Northwest (WA)
Re: Reflections on dust-up
Funny thing is -- I don't (have road rage) any more! Still the same 2-lane follow my leader communte, but I went from a type A road jerk to a laid back, conforming commuter that listens to my stereo and looks at the world passing by. I even let the "A" types go around when there is an opening (and sometimes not) ... all because of a hybrid. Better for the environment, yes; but also better for my own health and well being -- besides turning me into a more gentle and tolerate person.
MPG FANATIC WITH GUZZLERS
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 521
From: New Orleans
Re: Reflections on dust-up-WHAT DUST UP?
Bob,hey I missed a dust up? I'll have to search for it.I've been away.
I love arguments!Sorry I missed that one.
Ive sold 2 cars(needed the $$),and bought one recently.The Prizm(corolla clone) is gone,and so is the Honda Pilot.The Pilot,I miss; it was a great trip vehicle.I still have the Prius, of course.Replaced those two with a 1998 200,000 Suburban($2950 with a one year old trans rebuild,and AC rebuild) in surprisingly good shape(a lawyer owned it thru his partnership,so the maintenance was written off-he took good care of it).
The Suburban has loads of mpg improvement potential.In very short trip driving(average 2 miles with hours in between starts) it gets 12mpg.The Pilot would get about 13.5 on the same routes,the Prius 38-40,Prizm-24 or so).It more or less matches the Pilot in respect to lbs moved fuel used(4400 vs 5400).I was surprised that it was so close to the Pilot in city mpg(especially considering to 200,000 mile old 2 valve 5.7lt pushrod engine).The Pilot would get 22-24 mpg on very long hy trips(3000 miles) pure interstate driving. If I trust the Surburban I'll try it on a long trip.I think it will approach 20 mpg with no mods other than 42 psi in the tires.
In the future,I might put in taller diff gears(it does about 1650 rpms at 60 mph now),and maybe a spring loaded chin spoiler.Narrower tires might help also.
The Suburban would be a 10 mpg vehicle if I didn't P&G (in pure city driving).It glides very well- it spends 5 seconds per mph on smooth streets in glide mode.
I've run on.Where is the dust up?
Charlie
I love arguments!Sorry I missed that one.
Ive sold 2 cars(needed the $$),and bought one recently.The Prizm(corolla clone) is gone,and so is the Honda Pilot.The Pilot,I miss; it was a great trip vehicle.I still have the Prius, of course.Replaced those two with a 1998 200,000 Suburban($2950 with a one year old trans rebuild,and AC rebuild) in surprisingly good shape(a lawyer owned it thru his partnership,so the maintenance was written off-he took good care of it).
The Suburban has loads of mpg improvement potential.In very short trip driving(average 2 miles with hours in between starts) it gets 12mpg.The Pilot would get about 13.5 on the same routes,the Prius 38-40,Prizm-24 or so).It more or less matches the Pilot in respect to lbs moved fuel used(4400 vs 5400).I was surprised that it was so close to the Pilot in city mpg(especially considering to 200,000 mile old 2 valve 5.7lt pushrod engine).The Pilot would get 22-24 mpg on very long hy trips(3000 miles) pure interstate driving. If I trust the Surburban I'll try it on a long trip.I think it will approach 20 mpg with no mods other than 42 psi in the tires.
In the future,I might put in taller diff gears(it does about 1650 rpms at 60 mph now),and maybe a spring loaded chin spoiler.Narrower tires might help also.
The Suburban would be a 10 mpg vehicle if I didn't P&G (in pure city driving).It glides very well- it spends 5 seconds per mph on smooth streets in glide mode.
I've run on.Where is the dust up?
Charlie
Thread Starter
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Engineering first
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,613
From: Huntsville, AL
Re: Reflections on dust-up-WHAT DUST UP?
Ive sold 2 cars(needed the $$),and bought one recently.The Prizm(corolla clone) is gone,and so is the Honda Pilot.The Pilot,I miss; it was a great trip vehicle.I still have the Prius, of course.Replaced those two with a 1998 200,000 Suburban($2950 with a one year old trans rebuild,and AC rebuild) in surprisingly good shape(a lawyer owned it thru his partnership,so the maintenance was written off-he took good care of it).
The Suburban has loads of mpg improvement potential.In very short trip driving(average 2 miles with hours in between starts) it gets 12mpg. . . .
The Suburban has loads of mpg improvement potential.In very short trip driving(average 2 miles with hours in between starts) it gets 12mpg. . . .
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...95&postcount=1
Bob Wilson
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