No 339 HP car is a step in the right direction. The mere concept of a 339 HP car, hybrid or not, is a tribute to the wasteful self-centered nature of our culture and economy. Just because people want it does not make it right. And just because it's a hybrid doesn't mean it isn't wasteful.

And to answer those who want to call me a hypocrite, I do walk and ride my bike to places close enough. Unfortunately work is too distant for that, so I carpool. Every day. And I do it in a 86 HP car. And my other vehicle? 100% biodiesel. Zero petrolium.

A better question is why aren't YOU walking, biking or carpooling? That 339 HP is enough to power four of my carpools.

 

It really is too bad this statement doesn't work the other way--because many of us have wanted "smaller and more efficient" for decades, and they don't seem to be making that.

 

If enough people want smaller and more economical they will build them. They do build the Yaris don't they, they are going to build the fit won't they. There are some that are more economical,a nd they are building them. I guess those are not good enough for you.

Just because you work too far to walk or bike is not a good enough reason. If you were truly commited to being green, you would move close enough to work to walk / bike. Do you ride a motorcycle on the days you don't carpool?

I won't condemn you for your choices in life if you don't condemn me for my choices too.

And before you start to claim that my choices are impacting you, there has been no evidence that the warming cycle we are in is not just a cycle the earth has been in for the last billion years. It will get warm, and it will get cold, until the sun becomes a supernova and we are all fried.

 

The difference in condemnation is that I try, and it looks pretty clear that you don't. Really, you don't get to criticize me for not being green enough when you're shopping for a corvette and other gas hogs. Sorry dude, go stick your head in the sand and make fun of the people trying to STOP the planet from melting, while you continue vitriolically contributing to the problem. And it's not just global warming, it's a global fuel crisis, just because you can afford to buy as much gas as you want doesn't make it right. Condemnation befits immoral behavior. If you want to change how you're percieved then try changing your behavior.

As much as it seems like I'm picking on you I'm really not. I am attacking these attitudes proliferated by people who feel like they don't have to take any responsibility for taking care of the planet or solving the world's problems. People who sit around wishing somebody would fix the problems, while failing to notice that they ARE somebody. For the world's problems to be fixed WE need to fix them, that means me AND you AND everyone else. While they can help, no government can save us, no technology can save us, only we can save ourselves. Those who don't try to help are merely leeches feeding off the efforts of those trying to assure a future for all of us--all the while scoffing at those who actually have the courage and determination to make a difference, and hiding behind the idiotic notion that there's no evidence we can affect the deterioration of our planet. That's the mark of a true coward. They can hide all they want and ridicule to their heart's content, but it doesn't excuse their malicious negligence.

 

Consuming gas doesn't hurt the environment, zimbop -- but burning it in certain ways does release pollutants into the air. However, many manufacturers, particularly Honda and Toyota, have developed gas engines that burn gas quite cleanly, together with scrubbers and other stuff (hybrid tech) that make the cars release very little pollution, making them PZEV vehicles. That's great.

That gas is going to be used up no matter what. Might as well use it in a device that burns it cleanly.

 

Your point is well taken for the most part, but you're ignoring the environmental impact of oil drilling, exploration, and all the support it requires. If we pollute all our oceans and destroy all our wilderness sucking every drop of oil out of our planet, it's an environmental disaster whether we burn it cleanly or not. Then of course there's the issue of running out of the stuff and all the geopolitical implications of that. Burning it cleanly is of course great progress and I agree that some are doing better at it than others. So yeah you have a point, but "burning gas" as an individual issue is irrelevant--the big picture of oil production and consumption dictates that we must conserve or we'll be in big trouble for a great variety of reasons.

 

Yes, but you are ignoring the fact that to change behaviour, you must take small steps. If we want people to drive mor economical cars we must introduce them in the format they will be willing to buy. I am doing my part as far as I feel I want to. I don't subscribe to the "chicken little, the sky is falling" mentality that some have, but I do feel we must stop burning as much oil for political reasons. The less we rely on other countries for our energy, the better we will be.

And as far as the pot shot on searching for fuel hog vehicles, you might want to look at the real world fuel consumption of a vette. I think you will be suprised to see how good it does for the performance it provides. And that brings me back to my original point, the buyer of a GS hybrid will buy a car with the same performace, but the GS hybrid does it burning much less fuel. Do I want one, no. Would I like a ES with a TCH performace/MPG profile, yes.

 

We need lighter, more ENERGY efficient vehicles. Energy is what moves things, wheather the source is gasoline, electrical, or plutonium for that matter.

Once we have much more EFFICIENT vehicles, 50 horsepower is more than enough to move 5 or 6 adults from zero to 60 MPH in just a few seconds.

"Hybrid-ality" should be a step towards efficiency... not bigger, faster, more powerful vehicles. This is why I am opposed to manufacturers like Lexus who are simply using the hybrid drivetrain to boost specs. and to trick people into thinking they are buying something "green" when really it is a step backwards.

The average MPG of cars in the U.S.A. today is the same as it was in the 1970's. Why?????? The average horsepower per vehicle has been steadily going up, but we are not getting around any faster, now are we???

 

Fair enough. Though there is no shortage of high power vehicles, while there is a shortage of high efficiency vehicles. There's a few efficiency-focused passenger cars available, but most are focusing on how to increase HP with minimal FE cost, which really is not much progress IMO. And where's the FE truck I've been waiting a LONG time for? The closest so far is the Sprinter van. While trucks and cars come out with higher and higher average power every year, we're not getting closer to consuming less fuel. Perhaps we can slow the growth in fuel consumption, but I'd rather see a true reduction.

 

actually there are plenty of high efficiency vehicles (cars that get you 30+ mpg)
there is ONE vehicle that can be considered a luxury sport sedan and get more than 15 mpg.

ONE.

If you consider yourself "a driver of a luxury sport sedan" you are NOT going to buy a Prius. Nor a Civic. Nor even a MiniCooper (getting over 30 mpg) You are gonna buy a Jaquar, or a 7 series BMW. If you are lucky, you will get 15 mpg.

You can almost DOUBLE your mpg by buying the GS hybrid, instead.

I think that is more than a baby-step.

If we could convince each driver tomorrow to buy a new car that improved his mpg by 33%, as a hard-core environmentalist you should jump for joy.

Instead you criticize it.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. The GS hybrid is a huge step in the right direction. The GS will do as much to encourage fuel economy as the Camry, in the long run, by converting performance car guys to hybrid technology. That's important. You have to get all kinds of people into hybrids, not just the folks who are willing to drive a Prius or a Camry (though that IS hugely important, obviously)

Some luxury performance car drivers have converted to the Camry Hybrid, or even the Prius. But most haven't, and I'd rather they buy a GS hybrid than a 13 mpg BMW.

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as to your claims about car companies chasing HP rather than efficiency, today's cars have a lot more stuff on them than cars of twenty years ago did. ABS systems add weight, for example. Air bag systems add weight. Anti-pollution systems have added weight. Today's cars are wayyyy more efficient than the cars of not that long ago. And extraordinarily safer and cleaner. I wish they were had higher MPG, but we have improved a LOT!!!