Hi Bob:

___I see a mistake that you made above and I thought I would add the correction for you given the days since you first posted and failed to find it on your own. The Jetta in question is a “Compact”. The Prius II is a “Mid-size”. If the Prius II were a sedan, it would have been a Compact as well. The article does not state anything incorrectly that I care to comment on. The following should bring you up to speed with regards to making factual statements about the Prius II and other automobiles sizes in the future.

How are vehicle size classes defined?

___Hopefully the correction to your post above will suffice but an anti-hybrid addition? Viewing your own FE achievements per your sig show, many TDI owners have lmpg’s above yours yet have vehicles that are EPA rated for less. I will leave it up to you to explain any “anti-hybrid” reality.

___Do you really want me to add a comment about the quote above?

___Welcome to the real world of measurements, facts, and data.

___See my responses above. With regards to forum registration … To post at CleanMPG, you must register just as you do at GH. Did you find this to be unsolicited or common place just like the other forums you have registered for in the past? CleanMPG is built around improving FE and lowering emissions no matter what vehicle you happen to own or drive. It is also run by hybrid, non-hybrid and diesel enthusiast (namely me) who is not looking at a profitable bottom line. As you obviously know, GH is run by a corporate entity that cares little about the passion I have for higher FE, lower emissions, fuel efficient hybrids, non-hybrids, and what the future may hold for all of us. A simple check of the member list and posts here will show the present and past owners have little interest in my passion (hopefully yours as well?) other then as a paycheck. I only hope you have considered your contribution to their bottom line vs. those of us that truly care about fuel efficient hybrids and non-hybrids of any type for the good of us all.

___I believe you have a problem with CleanMPG or you would not have mentioned it so many times

___I knew about the TDI’s not being available for sale far into 07 back in February and have posted this fact as well as the reasons why many times at CleanMPG. Here are two very clear cut posts about the subject from quite a long time ago in fact.

02/2006 - 07 TDI's will no longer be available

05/2006 - VW to drop 3 diesel models for '07.

___I have also learned that VW will be shipping a large number of 06’s to their franchisees for dealer stock so as to sell into the 07 MY. Once they are gone, they are gone however. The disparaging remarks about CleanMPG do nothing for the betterment of our nation and planet as a whole and I hope you come to this realization soon.

___Regarding negative comments about the Prius II … You do remember somebody in particular has achieved > 125 mpg from a Prius II over a lengthy RT segment, right? Do you see me busting the Prius II’s chops at every opportunity over at CleanMPG? If you have, maybe you happen to miss the hundreds of comments I have made praising the Prius II as well as having one on my short list for my wife’s own. I post more Prius II related news items then any other but I will not post exclusively about the Prius I or II. Most would like a choice and many in and out of our community could not afford to call one their own unfortunately Here are a few links with additional posts about the Prius II over just the past few weeks you may find of interest.

Pulse and Glide plus Warp Stealth in the Prius II for maximum FE …

Conservation is key to defeating axis of oil.

Local utility working to build a market for Plug-in Hybrids.

Toyota to boost domestic Prius production by 50 pct.

Top 10 Best-Selling Hybrids of 2006.

Monaco's Prince Albert drives environment-friendly car.

Gas-electric cars: Has their time now come?

Hybrid car driver saves big on fuel.

___You must have followed the links to the Marathon Attempt thread as provided multiple times, you must have seen the data tables as provided multiple times, and you are obviously smart enough to do the simple math from the tables provided. Why do you ask of anyone else what you can do for yourself? This topic is a thread about a TDI and you are now asking about the Insight Marathon?

___I will again take leave of GH as it is not a site run for or by hybrid enthusiasts no matter how some may wish it to be … If you would like to discuss this further, feel free to contact me via E-Mail at Waynegerdes@CleanMPG.com at your earliest convenience.

___Good Luck to you and yours.

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

Thanks Lakedude!
This was what I was originally looking for before seeing the article. Given the other piece of information, the optimum, steady-state MPG for an Insight, the numbers make a lot more sense than the article.

Bob Wilson

 

Hi Wayne,
I appreciate the attempt but we will have to agree to disagree. I've already sent my comments to the editors of the original article (minus the 2007 Jetta not being avalable.) Apparently, you've found my comments about the CleanMPG version but I remain unimpressed. We can discuss it offline but I doubt we'll change our respective points of view. As for the information I was looking for, it showed up by the same mechanism that announced the Insight test, postings in a GH forum.

The engineering data on the Insight test has shown up and I've thanked those who brought it to GH. The critical pieces of data I was looking for were:

1) Insight optimum, steady-state MPG speed - 42 mph
2) Average MPG during the test - 18 mph

I look forward to someday reading about simular efforts with current production gas and diesel vehicles. For example, I'm reminded of a recent TV commercial showing a guy blocking access to a gas station as an H3 approaches and passes it by. He then claims to the camera, "The H3 gets better than 20 MPG." That would be an excellent test article to demonstrate achieving high mileage is vehicle independent . . . especially if the test uses an automatic transmission version. That would be a challenge.

Bob Wilson

 

lakedude crossposted that said data at CleanMPG after he did the calculations.

Thank you for deciding to discussing all the issues you mentioned on this thread offline with Wayne - that is the best medium to do it.

 

I find the steady state cruise in my cvt to be about 58mph which yields about 60mpg

 

For a comparison, when I was training for the Insight marathon, I ran the first lap at a steady pace of 38-42 mph and came up with 123 mpg. The rest of the laps were done using my version of unrefined P&G and was able to do 150 mpg. Under ideal conditions during the marathon two drivers posted a 1.2L/100K (196 MPG) for there lap. Many of the drivers saw 1.0 and 1.1L/100K at the half way point but wern't able to bring it home. Some time soon I will go back and try my refined P&G on my practice course and see what I learned from the marathon.

As for 100 mpG at 40+ mpH, I did it three times this summer, 4000 miles, three tanks, 102,102, and 112 mpG. My target speed was 55mpH + or - 5, 60 miles/ day, 17 known stop lights, 90-115*, 20% city 80% freeway, mostly days, no rain, light traffic....Louis

 

Last spring I went 141 miles at 98.9mpg at around 45mph.

I'm going to offer a possible explaination of why most cars go farther on pulse and glide.

The internal combustion engine has a lot of parts that simply keep it going, so even with a fuel shut off, you have a significant amount of friction. One advantage of the fuel cell vehicle is the propulsion is greatly simplified (yes, I know there are numerious hurdles in front of FCVs). Point I'm trying to make on FCVs is it's probably so efficient that it would not benefit as much with pulse and glide driving.