Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
#1
06-17-2008, 08:10 PM
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Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
Did anyone catch Motorweek this week (6/15)?
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/motornews.shtml
Only six months ago I ran over to two cars in an accident adjacent to my employer's parking lot. One happened to be an Escape and I never hesitated to approach.
BTW - I copied the article since it changes weekly and I didn't see an archive.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/motornews.shtml
First Responders Safety Training for Hybrid Electric Vehicles
Jessica Choksey
Being the first to arrive at the scene of an accident is something we should all be prepared for. Calling for help, alerting oncoming traffic and rendering first aid are basic steps, but if that crash involves a hybrid-electric vehicle, then that accident scene should be approached with extra caution.
Hybrid-electric vehicles are as safe as conventional vehicles, but because of their high-voltage battery systems, accidents involving hybrids can pose an extra risk to the EMTs, police and firemen responding to the scene. That's why the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium has developed a curriculum and training program for First Responders to safely identify and deal with hybrid-electric vehicles.
For instance, the most popular hybrid, Toyota's Prius, is among those that can run silently in battery mode - and since it uses a keyless remote, the car can remain powered up even when no key is visible. In this mode, pressing the throttle could cause the car to move unexpectedly, so immobilizing the car is important.
The NAFTC course offers hands-on, vehicle-specific training covering how to safely disconnect the high voltage power supply, how to deal with possible ruptured battery packs and how to safely extract drivers and passengers trapped inside these vehicles.
The training is offered at the NAFTC Morgantown, West Virginia headquarters and also through a network of 33 National Training Centers located at community colleges, tech schools and Universities nationwide.
If you're calling 9-1-1 about an accident and think a hybrid is involved, the safe move is to stay back, identify the vehicle as a hybrid and let the first responder know so they can be better prepared when they arrive. And that's it for this week's MotorNews.
This is scary stuff. How many average Americans can identify a hybrid car other than a Prius? Jessica Choksey
Being the first to arrive at the scene of an accident is something we should all be prepared for. Calling for help, alerting oncoming traffic and rendering first aid are basic steps, but if that crash involves a hybrid-electric vehicle, then that accident scene should be approached with extra caution.
Hybrid-electric vehicles are as safe as conventional vehicles, but because of their high-voltage battery systems, accidents involving hybrids can pose an extra risk to the EMTs, police and firemen responding to the scene. That's why the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium has developed a curriculum and training program for First Responders to safely identify and deal with hybrid-electric vehicles. For instance, the most popular hybrid, Toyota's Prius, is among those that can run silently in battery mode - and since it uses a keyless remote, the car can remain powered up even when no key is visible. In this mode, pressing the throttle could cause the car to move unexpectedly, so immobilizing the car is important.
The NAFTC course offers hands-on, vehicle-specific training covering how to safely disconnect the high voltage power supply, how to deal with possible ruptured battery packs and how to safely extract drivers and passengers trapped inside these vehicles.
The training is offered at the NAFTC Morgantown, West Virginia headquarters and also through a network of 33 National Training Centers located at community colleges, tech schools and Universities nationwide.
If you're calling 9-1-1 about an accident and think a hybrid is involved, the safe move is to stay back, identify the vehicle as a hybrid and let the first responder know so they can be better prepared when they arrive. And that's it for this week's MotorNews.
Only six months ago I ran over to two cars in an accident adjacent to my employer's parking lot. One happened to be an Escape and I never hesitated to approach.
BTW - I copied the article since it changes weekly and I didn't see an archive.
#2
06-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Prof. of Hybridology
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,070
Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
Exactly what is scary about it?
It's a positive news story combatting the early hybrid myth that EMT's wouldn't respond to you if your hybrid car was in an accident for fear of electrocution. Staying back from any accident is a good idea. Several of the hybrid models have their EMT training materials online, I found the FEH response guide to be a fun read.
If any hybrid vehicle is in a terrible accident, the battery autodisconnects. There are brightly colored cords to alert any safety cutting, and a simple to use disconnect that even owners can use to disable the battery packs. Even without the several safety features, trying to electrocute yourself with a hybrid is pretty hard to do. You are far more likely to be injured in an auto accident due to gasoline being in the tank then you are because of any of the battery components.
It's a positive news story combatting the early hybrid myth that EMT's wouldn't respond to you if your hybrid car was in an accident for fear of electrocution. Staying back from any accident is a good idea. Several of the hybrid models have their EMT training materials online, I found the FEH response guide to be a fun read.
If any hybrid vehicle is in a terrible accident, the battery autodisconnects. There are brightly colored cords to alert any safety cutting, and a simple to use disconnect that even owners can use to disable the battery packs. Even without the several safety features, trying to electrocute yourself with a hybrid is pretty hard to do. You are far more likely to be injured in an auto accident due to gasoline being in the tank then you are because of any of the battery components.
#3
06-18-2008, 02:27 AM
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
...For instance, the most popular hybrid, Toyota's Prius, is among those that can run silently in battery mode - and since it uses a keyless remote, the car can remain powered up even when no key is visible. In this mode, pressing the throttle could cause the car to move unexpectedly, so immobilizing the car is important. ...
Could someone contact the author and suggest they have made an error in their facts and data. Point out that the car has a parking "paw" and in "P" won't move. Also point out that if "in gear" and the throttle is not pushed, the car will creep forward on its own. The "gear" selector has to be manually operated.
Bob Wilson
#4
06-18-2008, 08:59 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
This reminds me of an article back from 2003 where it stated that EMP were warned not to help victims of a hybrid car crash.
The logic stated that since the high voltage hybrid battery cables run through the roof and doors, the EMP's face significant personal risk to electrocution with the Jaws of Life.
That of course is illogical- seeing there are no HV cables are in the roof or doors. Who knows where this nonsense comes from?
Motorweek must be a reliable source of information?
-Steve
The logic stated that since the high voltage hybrid battery cables run through the roof and doors, the EMP's face significant personal risk to electrocution with the Jaws of Life.
That of course is illogical- seeing there are no HV cables are in the roof or doors. Who knows where this nonsense comes from?
Motorweek must be a reliable source of information?
-Steve
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 06-18-2008 at 09:01 AM.
#5
06-18-2008, 10:48 AM
Eco Accelerometrist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 1,191
Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
LOL. No kidding.
Hey, isn't that the "show" that refers to "Pat Goss" as their resident mechanic "expert" ?
Enough said.
Cheers;
MSantos
#6
06-18-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
but maybe not for long...
Unfortunately, Motorweek is the only US based show I have found that has car reviews. Their drivers choice car in this same episode was the 2008 Toyota Scion-xB
#8
06-19-2008, 04:48 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 490
Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
The basic problem is the possibility that:
1. The hybrid system might still be "on"; and
2. The metal thing that you are about to touch might be charged at high voltage.
This is really only possible when the vehicle is severely damage. And, the engineers who designed the system did a lot of work to prevent exactly that from happening, so it is extremely unlikely. But, several hundred volts DC is enough to kill a human instantly, so it really is better to be careful whenever there is any doubt at all.
As the driver, if you are conscious and not too badly injured, you can turn the system off. (That is, if it hasn't already turned itself off.) And, if you can turn the thing off, open the door, and get out unassisted, there is no need for a bystander to help you anyway. If you can't do those things, then you probably need EMT assistance anyway.
When gasoline cars were new, fuel spills and fires were very common after collisions. After a couple decades the engineers figured out how to prevent most of those problems. Something similar is in process with electric cars. They are new technology, and so the failure modes are not all completely worked out. In another decade or two, electric cars will be very common, they will have had experienced thousands of collisions, and the failure modes will be known and safe.
In reality, the failure modes are mostly known and safe, already. It's just the last few odd cases that still need to be discovered and worked out.
1. The hybrid system might still be "on"; and
2. The metal thing that you are about to touch might be charged at high voltage.
This is really only possible when the vehicle is severely damage. And, the engineers who designed the system did a lot of work to prevent exactly that from happening, so it is extremely unlikely. But, several hundred volts DC is enough to kill a human instantly, so it really is better to be careful whenever there is any doubt at all.
As the driver, if you are conscious and not too badly injured, you can turn the system off. (That is, if it hasn't already turned itself off.) And, if you can turn the thing off, open the door, and get out unassisted, there is no need for a bystander to help you anyway. If you can't do those things, then you probably need EMT assistance anyway.
When gasoline cars were new, fuel spills and fires were very common after collisions. After a couple decades the engineers figured out how to prevent most of those problems. Something similar is in process with electric cars. They are new technology, and so the failure modes are not all completely worked out. In another decade or two, electric cars will be very common, they will have had experienced thousands of collisions, and the failure modes will be known and safe.
In reality, the failure modes are mostly known and safe, already. It's just the last few odd cases that still need to be discovered and worked out.
#9
06-19-2008, 05:33 AM
World's First Hybrid
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Quincy MA
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Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
??If the HV cables were to be severely damaged in an accident, I would hope that a dead short from Hot to Gnd (the car body) would immediately blow any fuses or fuseable links and cut power from the battery pack. This along with the autodisconnect should be sufficient to render the vehicle safe to touch. If the jaws of life are used and a HV cable were to be cut, the same thing would happen. I believe that most equipment used to extract people from vehicles has insulated handles coupled with the operator using heavy leather gloves, there shouldn't be a problem.
#10
06-19-2008, 05:37 AM
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Re: Motorweek warns "stay back" from hybrid in accident
Sometimes we don't do a good job of letting folks know how the battery systems work. Now I can only address the Prius traction battery but the system has:
One of the things folks who have learned a trick or two about our vehicles can forget is not everyone knows what took us time to research, read and figure out. So I'm just trying to share what I know, not as an expert, you really need to read the first responder's guide for your particular vehicle, but as an aid who suggests you use the Google index and find the latest, accurate information. Then come back and share your new knowledge with us.
Better still, take your first responder's guide over to the local fire station, introduce yourself and offer them your copy. Let them take a peek at your safety plug and look over the vehicle. If they are on duty, they can't leave but be a friendly resource. You may need their help someday and they need to know how much you appreciate their service.
GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson
- traction battery is in its own housing - this is located over the rear axle, one of the strongest parts of the car.
- independent control computer - runs off the 12 VDC system and communicates with other other computers including the air bag system computer and if it see these other computers report an accident, deployment of the air bags, it opens the relays. This computer is located in and part of the traction battery housing.
- ground fault isolation - this battery computer also detects any grounding of either battery terminal or the battery lines. Upon detecting any resistance of less than ~1 million ohms, the battery control computer opens the relays.
- relays that default open - there are three relays, one on each end and one in the middle that have to be held closed by the three separate signals from the control computer. If the 12 VDC system is lost, they also open up. If any one of these relays opens up, they isolate the battery from the battery housing.
- safety plug - removal of the manual safety plug cuts the battery voltage in half and isolates the battery pairs.
- firemen gloves - due to the problem of building fires causing hazardous electrical shorts to metal frames and other hazards, firemen wear insulating gloves.
One of the things folks who have learned a trick or two about our vehicles can forget is not everyone knows what took us time to research, read and figure out. So I'm just trying to share what I know, not as an expert, you really need to read the first responder's guide for your particular vehicle, but as an aid who suggests you use the Google index and find the latest, accurate information. Then come back and share your new knowledge with us.
Better still, take your first responder's guide over to the local fire station, introduce yourself and offer them your copy. Let them take a peek at your safety plug and look over the vehicle. If they are on duty, they can't leave but be a friendly resource. You may need their help someday and they need to know how much you appreciate their service.
GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson
Last edited by bwilson4web; 06-19-2008 at 05:43 AM.
