If This is Not Denial - What Is?
#11
Yanks Sicker Than Brits
Originally Posted by zadscmc
As Americans have become plush and fat, we have become less and less accountable for our own actions.
Fast food obesity is the restaurants' fault.
High gas prices are the oil companies' fault.
Sheesh.
Fast food obesity is the restaurants' fault.
High gas prices are the oil companies' fault.
Sheesh.
See Blimey! Americans sicker than Brits
Originally the survey was to prove the poor were sicker, until they found out the poorest third of the British population was heathier than the richest third of the American population. No, I don't think sausage and eggs is their secret. Americans spend twice the British in health care.
More stress and isolation is suspect, but obesity is thought to be the leading factor. Brit ex-pats notice less walking, more driving when coming to America.
#12
Re: If This is Not Denial - What Is?
Originally Posted by tanstaafl14
There is no such thing as "gouging" in a free market. For gouging to work, every seller would have to agree to maintain a high price regardless of how much business they lose. All it takes is one seller undercutting the others and the cartel collapses.
Interesting how gold & silver have risen far higher in percentage terms than oil, but no one whines about the "greedy, gouging" mining companies, even though higher prices flow to their bottom lines in exactly the same manner. Nor do I see anyone demanding an investigation of skyrocketing home prices, or proposing a "windfall profit tax" on home sellers. Just another example of the economic illiteracy of the American sheeple, courtesy of the public school system.
Interesting how gold & silver have risen far higher in percentage terms than oil, but no one whines about the "greedy, gouging" mining companies, even though higher prices flow to their bottom lines in exactly the same manner. Nor do I see anyone demanding an investigation of skyrocketing home prices, or proposing a "windfall profit tax" on home sellers. Just another example of the economic illiteracy of the American sheeple, courtesy of the public school system.
But that's not the whole story:
Refiners aren't in competition because all the gas you buy at this country's 170,000 gas stations are all refined at the same 160 refineries. Exxon doesn't refine the Exxon gas that's sold at their branded stations. Gas is a fungible commodity that is commingled all along the distibution chain. Because of this, the large players, i.e., ExxonMobil, BP/Amoco, Shell, ChevronTexaco, ConnocoPhillips, Valero/Diamond Shamrock/Beacon can control prices without ever explicity price fixing, and there's nobody to step in and undercut them because the small guy is buying gas refined at their refineries and shipped through their pipelines. The whole system is so interconnected this "competition" you speak of is about as real as the tooth fairy or easter bunny. You might not want to perpetrate being so pompous, because you clearly don't understand the gasoline market nor how it works.
Watch http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ener...ebehaviorvideo and get back to me.
Last edited by stevejust; 05-04-2006 at 10:17 PM.
#13
Re: If This is Not Denial - What Is?
Originally Posted by stevejust
Let me begin with four words from your 11th grade economics text book: price inelasticity of demand.
As for refiner competition, you are right that refiners basically transfer refined products to each other -- mostly in exchange agreements. However, that does not mean that refiners aren't in competition with each other. Why? because it is supply that determines price. Thus if one refiner decides to restrict output in an effort to firm up industry prices, if another refiner replaces that output restriciton by producing more...the price impact would be neglible. The problem in this country right now is that almost all the refiners are running full out. In such an environment no one can effectively defeat a price increase by increasing output.
I would say, that refiners at least in some parts of the country, are tight oligopolists who tacitly coordinate on capacity expansions. That is, they only slowly increase capacity to keep supplies tight. I think that is the marjor problem.
Norris
#14
Re: If This is Not Denial - What Is?
Originally Posted by Norris
The basic problem with refiners is a lack of refining capacity. Right now our refiners are running near full out.
Originally Posted by stevejust
Watch http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ener...ebehaviorvideo and get back to me.
#15
Re: If This is Not Denial - What Is?
Originally Posted by Norris
The basic problem with refiners is a lack of refining capacity. Right now our refiners are running near full out. . . .
http://www.coffeyvillegroup.com/
The sad tale of woe:
http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/pub/mar05/perfect.htm
The last time I was home, I could still see the waste gas pipe, inert.
Bob Wilson
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