China Pollution Issues
#21
04-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Re: China Pollution Issues
That 500 buck bike actually is the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. Bikes costing thousands are made in Taiwan. But. . .we do have bike makers here yet.
It's not just the mid-manufacturing jobs going away, but we have a surplus of engineers and scientist who can't find jobs while industry imports those skills from India. Of course, those cats get paid less than our home grown variety.
China knows it has a problem. Witness its efforts to clean the air around the Olympics. They're even developing a methane power plant using methane gas from one of their coal mines. (And, sorry to ask, have you wondered about our coal industry?)
A lot of crap coming into this country is Chinese. And, if they weren't killing us, we'd all rush to buy that stuff.
I remember post WWII getting a train set for my birthday. Look at the inside of engine and it was a beer can. The train cars were once beer cans. Made in Japan meant crap. Now the Japanese have us by better than a decade in hybrid auto technology.
There's your cautionary tale.
It's not just the mid-manufacturing jobs going away, but we have a surplus of engineers and scientist who can't find jobs while industry imports those skills from India. Of course, those cats get paid less than our home grown variety.
China knows it has a problem. Witness its efforts to clean the air around the Olympics. They're even developing a methane power plant using methane gas from one of their coal mines. (And, sorry to ask, have you wondered about our coal industry?)
A lot of crap coming into this country is Chinese. And, if they weren't killing us, we'd all rush to buy that stuff.
I remember post WWII getting a train set for my birthday. Look at the inside of engine and it was a beer can. The train cars were once beer cans. Made in Japan meant crap. Now the Japanese have us by better than a decade in hybrid auto technology.
There's your cautionary tale.
Translation. The high paying manufacturing jobs are headed overseas and being replaced with low paying retails job.
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...804100593/1003
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/09/news...egap/index.htm
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._09/009444.php
#22
04-16-2008, 08:52 PM
Re: China Pollution Issues
Yes, indeed Cilly and centrider. I well know about those jobs disappearing. I have a friend that sells stuff at Sears (part-time, even, so they don't have to pay benefits to him!) that I used to work side-by-side with. He counts as employed - but he was displaced, and is now making FAR less money than he did.
My industry is being outsourced to India. Many of the jobs in my industry that are still in the US are being taken now by the Indian folk. Many of them are pretty good at what they do, also. I work side-by-side with quite a few now. They re-deploy jobs like mine to them for about 20-30% of what I make.
Many, many of the high-paying jobs are ending in this country in one or both of these ways. It is plain & simple corporate greed, and our country is beginning to pay the price.
BTW, I know about bikes made in Tawain and, yes, even the US still. One of the oldie-n-cheapie-but-soso-goodie's is not made in Ohio? anymore- Huffy. Walmart essentially forced them to find ways to make a cheaper bike and even "helped them" by suggesting how/where to get them made in China. Now they are.
My industry is being outsourced to India. Many of the jobs in my industry that are still in the US are being taken now by the Indian folk. Many of them are pretty good at what they do, also. I work side-by-side with quite a few now. They re-deploy jobs like mine to them for about 20-30% of what I make.
Many, many of the high-paying jobs are ending in this country in one or both of these ways. It is plain & simple corporate greed, and our country is beginning to pay the price.
BTW, I know about bikes made in Tawain and, yes, even the US still. One of the oldie-n-cheapie-but-soso-goodie's is not made in Ohio? anymore- Huffy. Walmart essentially forced them to find ways to make a cheaper bike and even "helped them" by suggesting how/where to get them made in China. Now they are.
Last edited by gumby; 04-16-2008 at 08:57 PM.
#23
04-17-2008, 05:53 AM
Re: China Pollution Issues
Same deal with Levi, an "American" icon in jeans... no more. Wally World forced them to do it cheaper in China where pollution is "cheap" to manufacture.
D-A-M-n regulations here in the US are costing us (sarcasm).
I don't know, until clean air and clean water and a non-poisoned earth mean something economically, it seems to be ok to continue the cheaper at any cost mentality.
So, when I want a pair of Levi's, I'M polluting in China...blame me. But, it's not in my backyard so why should i look any further. (again, more sarcasm)
D-A-M-n regulations here in the US are costing us (sarcasm).
I don't know, until clean air and clean water and a non-poisoned earth mean something economically, it seems to be ok to continue the cheaper at any cost mentality.
So, when I want a pair of Levi's, I'M polluting in China...blame me. But, it's not in my backyard so why should i look any further. (again, more sarcasm)
#24
04-18-2008, 10:19 AM
Re: China Pollution Issues
I know this is very near and dear to a lot of people, but I don't think people are seeing the big picture. Whether the jobs in the US are good or not, unemployment is low. Everyone knows someone out of work or underemployed but that's inevitable in a dynamic economy. Economists will tell you that 5% unemployment is very close to the minimum possible. If we had more jobs (of any kind) other jobs would go unfilled or be outsourced. Where I work, we outsource engineering to China and hire immigrants not for a cheaper price but to be able to work internationally and to get good engineers that are just not available in the US.
It's an interconnected global economy. If bicycles are produced cheaper in China, a US manufacturer may lose sales. However the consumer will now be able to buy a bike and something else, which may or may not be made in the US. As countries advance economically they get more efficient and environmentally conscious. Closing the borders and cutting off the developing world is very short sighted. Try a little research on Smoot Hawley. That's the protectionist act that turned the Wall Street recession into a full world depression. In 2008 we have the opportunity to repeat history.
It's an interconnected global economy. If bicycles are produced cheaper in China, a US manufacturer may lose sales. However the consumer will now be able to buy a bike and something else, which may or may not be made in the US. As countries advance economically they get more efficient and environmentally conscious. Closing the borders and cutting off the developing world is very short sighted. Try a little research on Smoot Hawley. That's the protectionist act that turned the Wall Street recession into a full world depression. In 2008 we have the opportunity to repeat history.
#25
04-18-2008, 02:35 PM
Re: China Pollution Issues
I know this is very near and dear to a lot of people, but I don't think people are seeing the big picture. Whether the jobs in the US are good or not, unemployment is low. Everyone knows someone out of work or underemployed but that's inevitable in a dynamic economy. Economists will tell you that 5% unemployment is very close to the minimum possible. If we had more jobs (of any kind) other jobs would go unfilled or be outsourced. Where I work, we outsource engineering to China and hire immigrants not for a cheaper price but to be able to work internationally and to get good engineers that are just not available in the US.
It's an interconnected global economy. If bicycles are produced cheaper in China, a US manufacturer may lose sales. However the consumer will now be able to buy a bike and something else, which may or may not be made in the US. As countries advance economically they get more efficient and environmentally conscious. Closing the borders and cutting off the developing world is very short sighted. Try a little research on Smoot Hawley. That's the protectionist act that turned the Wall Street recession into a full world depression. In 2008 we have the opportunity to repeat history.
It's an interconnected global economy. If bicycles are produced cheaper in China, a US manufacturer may lose sales. However the consumer will now be able to buy a bike and something else, which may or may not be made in the US. As countries advance economically they get more efficient and environmentally conscious. Closing the borders and cutting off the developing world is very short sighted. Try a little research on Smoot Hawley. That's the protectionist act that turned the Wall Street recession into a full world depression. In 2008 we have the opportunity to repeat history.
If full employment means employment at barely above a living wage, which is to say enough income to meet basic needs for one's family of housing, nutrition and comfort than saying 5% meets that critical benchmark is a unrealistic one. Especially if one considers medical benefits.
China has not been a good, "neighbor" in that its goods are shoddy in many cases, and even worse darn right dangerous. China's problem is that as a dictatorship which has had power much too long corruption outstrips and overrides any promulgation of laws and rules. The pay-off is the rule. Small privately coal mines operate in violation of China's laws because of pay-offs to small and large government officials. By the way, my information comes from the NPR series on China.
In a Science Friday episode the dearth of qualified engineers was attacked. However as a retired biology teacher I might tend to lean towards your statement. If such is the case than we're on the way to becoming a third-world economy.
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