http://www.cctv.com/english/20070730/104805.shtml

 

I commute about 15km each way- I rarely reach 100km either way- so, I could potentially drive completely on electric Monday to Friday. If this is true, I would be filling up once every few months. Unbelievable.

 

Interesting statement: "....The new model is not fully electric, but it will help protect the environment......".

Where does this idea come from? Electrical cars pollute as much as gasoline cars if not more. Where does the electricity come? How about the loss in the transmission lines?

And by the way, don't get me wrong, I love saving gasoline. And my hybrid has reduced my gas consumption significantly. Not because it is half electric, but because it allows me to use the energy that otherwise would be converted to heat in my breaking system.

 

You've been duped (as we all have...again) by big oil.

Repeat this and often "Electic cars DO NOT pollute as much as gasoline cars"

darrelldd.com or Teslamotors.com or heck...google electric cars pollution and find the facts.

Millions of unregulated tailpipes cleaner than well-regulated power stations...with renewables making HUGE strides?? Not even close.

Gasoline will ALWAYS be dirty (and uses an incredible amount of electricity to make). electric cars are not and can be even cleaner without carbon-based power...a very real possiblility that will be here sooner than later. Skip this dirty explosive step of making gasoline and directly power my car with elctricity.

Plug me in...I'm ready.

 

I have to disappoint you Curt....I've not been duped by big oil. I just have a very bad habit of basing my comments on science-fact and not science-fiction. I looked at this for the first time almost 30 years ago when I was student.

My comment was simply that you cannot assume a car is less polluting just because it is electrical (which is how it is most often described, like in the comment that started this debate). The fact is that most of our electricity today is generated by burning fossil fuels (somewhere else than your backyard). That does generate pollution and CO2 (somewhere else than your backyard). And a not insignificant portion of that energy (which generated pollution when it was produced) is wasted during the delivery process (transmission lines, up/down conversions, battery inefficiencies etc.).

Now if you change that equation by using another source (than we most often do today) which could be hydro, wind, solar or nuclear then you will generate less pollution (even though it is still not going to be pollution-free). But you see the reduction in pollution and CO2 came from changing how you generate electricity and not just because you chose to drive an electric car.

One significant disadvantage of electricity is that is very hard to store. Did you notice that the new plug-in Prius has an electric motor range of just 8 miles (=13 kilometer). Hardly enough to bring most people to/from work or back from a shopping trip. And this only after Toyota added extra batteries (compared to today's model). How are you going to dispose of the batteries? As far as I know, we don't yet have a really good solution for that. How about the extra weight the batteries add to the total weight of the car? This actually causes increased pollution when the car runs on gasoline (compared to the same car w/o the batteries installed). And I could go on like that.

The Camry Hybrid weights approximately 400 lbs more than it's gas-only powered siblings. And how many miles can a camry hybrid drive on electrical power? Less than the 8 miles mentioned above!!! Of course, not all of the extra weight comes from the batteries - I know. A tank of gasoline weights around 150 lbs and takes you 600 miles (if you drive a camry hybrid). The problems in a nutshell are 1) the energy density of today's batteries is extremely low compared to gasoline or ethanol (85% of the energy density of gasoline) and 2) it takes significant longer than two minutes to "refuel".

I'm sorry Curt, but I think we'll solve this huge urgent problem faster if we base our statements on science instead of "religion". I'm convinced there will eventually be solutions that will fix the deficiencies today's electrical cars have (better battery technology or a different energy delivery system than electricity etc.). Meanwhile, I think hybrids are a great stop-gap measure. That is why I'm driving one (though it doesn't make sense financially). And I love it, especially when I sit in stop-and-go traffic. The same is true for wind and solar (solar especially in the south-western corner of the US). A huge portion of the little I have saved is invested in solar and wind. Do you really think a guy who is duped by the oil companies would 1) put his limited retirement saving into stop-gap measures that are going to help us getting off oil, 2) drive a hybrid though it financially doesn't make sense and 3) install solar panels on his roof (which is my next remodel project)? No, Curt, wishful thinking doesn't help, but every little bit we do does help if it is based on reality!

 

The point is that this is a step in the right direction. We've been using IC engines for the past 100 years or so and now that a newer technology comes along, we want INSTANT results, instant payback, instantly incredible gains. Everything is incremental. If you don't give it a chance, it'll never come to fruition.

There are OTHER ways of creating electricity that will develop over time. Tesla proved that with his incredible experiments but was beaten down. Wind, hydro, solar, etc...will develop hopefully to a point where we can then use these ways of generating electricity.

You make alot of assumptions about energy storage, etc....do you honestly think the technology development in these areas is just simply standing still? Hybrid cars have come along FAR more than IC cars have in a tenth of the time....do people ever realize that? Or is it that our attention spans have shrunk so much that we never realize we changed our briefs in the morning after our morning bath?

 

I stand by my assertions. do the research and let google be your friend. It's there for everyone to learn. Electric cars are NOT dirtier than gasoline cars. Repeat, electric cars are NOT dirtier than gasoline cars.

when all of the gasoline energy and pollution numbers are calculated (drilling, refining, transporting, etc.) it is always dirty...this from ALL sources of reading, specifically the above noted websites. We HAVE to stop the oil madness and get to electric transportation or NO ONE will be able to breathe soon.

'course...this is just my opinion. Stay the oil course and no one gets hurt..at least not short term.

 

start here:

http://www.electroauto.com/info/poll.shtml

and here:

http://drivingthefuture.com/97pct.htm

cheers

 

Whatever!

I am happy for a plug!!! and a bigger battery !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I can have a Li based battery !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Chevy Volt beat it to the market and is well done then i have a choice.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So let the parade move on. More fuel economy, Less pollution, Save money. None are perfect but all are better. So let's get on with it.

 

This is really unbelievable!!! No less than that!!!

To Noz: I don't think you read my posting completely. What did I write in the last paragraph? That I'm driving a hybrid because every little bit helps; that I invest in companies that develop products used to produce renewable energy (because I think it is the right thing to do); that I'm convinced there will be technological advances that will resolve a lot of the issues. I was describing why an electrical car doesn't make much sense today (some folks do think it does). Not that we shouldn't try really hard to develop one! I will do almost anything to get off OIL! If there was a solution out there that was twice as expensive as a gasoline car, I would take it in a heart beat! Not even spend 10 seconds to think about it! But it has to be based on reality not wishful thinking! That's all. See also my posting to Finman right below.

To Finman: See this is what I'm talking about. Here is an excerpt from your most recent posting: "...when all of the gasoline energy and pollution numbers are calculated (drilling, refining, transporting, etc.) it is always dirty....". Sure nobody has denied. But the FACT is that most of the electricity in the USA as of TODAY is produced by burning fossil fuels (thanks to the groups that opposed nuclear power in the past). Thus driving an electrical car (or a plug-in hybrid) as of TODAY also produces pollution. It takes the same amount of resources and effort to produce the fuel (drilling, transportation etc) regardless where you burn it. But if you chose to burn it in a power plant then you also have to pay for transmission loss, up/down conversion etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure the the plug-in hybrid didn't solve the pollution problem (unless we change the other part of the equation).

To Noz, Finman and other interesed: I do plan to buy a plug-in Prius when it comes out. And as I wrote in my very first posting I also plan to install solar panels on my roof. See this is going to reduce pollution because I changed the other part of the equation as well. I simply resent the notion that if it is electrical it must be good. I just pointed out why that is not the case. I wonder why it is so hard to understand? The electrical car is not going to do a sh.. for you (excuse my French) unless you change the other part the equation (and there are still technological obstacles). You just pollute somebody else's backyard. And to me that didn't solve the problem. Let's do it, but let's not kid ourselves in the process.