It's about time. I think it's great that they are getting their heads together. America has no shortage of engineers who can develop a decent hybrid if the bean counters stay away. I've read negative comments regarding this announcement but I prefer to say, 'right on, go for it'.

 

Okay... here's where I have to be careful what I say or I get fired.

Many moons ago, two companies worked together on a hybrid co-development program. They were both focused on developing a state-of-the-art system to power a 5 - 7 passenger SUV. Each would use their own SUV vehicle designs, but the underlying hybrid system hardware and controls would be basically the same for both companies.

For several reasons, some financial, some related to Intellectual Property ownership, some related to an independent discovery of a better idea, the two agreed to allow the joint venture / development program to expire. One of the companies continued on developing and improving the hybrid product that was being developed and now has two SUVs on the road with that system. The other continued to pursue its better idea, basing their new system on a system they currently use in some very, very large vehicles.

Other companies that were considering purchasing a system from the company that has SUVs on the road now took a look at the system being developed by the other company and said...."hmmmm....can we join this party?" Products are not on the road yet, but they will be soon and they will be impressive. Yes, they will be late, but that's what happens when you change philosophical directions halfway in the process of system invention.

Cadillac introduced a V8-6-4 engine that had the capability to run on 4, 6, or 8 cylinders, depending on the vehicle power load requirements. The concept was sound, but the state of automotive computing power available at the time was probably insufficient to process the seamless changes from 4 to 6 to 8 cylinders. Now that vehicle computing systems have advanced way beyond where they were in the early 1980's, the concept has re-surfaced in the Honda VCM system, the GM Displacement on Demand system, and Ford and DCX systems. All of these are on the road and functioning well right now.

The Cadillac V8-6-4 engine was killed and the Northstar system (engine, transmission, and suspension system) was developed to replace it. The Northstar system was and continues to be an award winning product. It powers the current generation of Cadillacs, including the new DTS, STS, SRX, and the XLR. A 469 hp Supercharged variant is about to debut in the sub 5 second 0-60 mph STS-V and XLR-V vehicles. The V-8-6-4 went over very badly, due to the limitations of the engine computing controls. The Northstar was and continues to be an outta the park homerun.

Peace,

Martin

 

Hi Martin:

___Third one in a row … Love the latest Caddy’s. I wouldn’t own one for three reasons however … There FE sucks, their dash material sucks, and they are overpriced even under the GM Employee Discount plan!

HAH has higher combined mileage than anything GM makes?

___Now lets go back a few years … A little program called PNGV that GM, Ford, Chrysler, and my tax dollars were involved in. A Billion $’s and bingo, 70 + mpg Diesel Hybrid’s that actually did achieve > 70 mpg. At least GM’s did. All 3 CEO’s at the time canned the program. No one is going to pay an extra $7,500 for the hybridization and lighter weight materials of an automobile that receives 3X’s what our present sedans receive … No one ever would! Instead, we will introduce the Hummer and H2 after that. You know, double the price of our most popular SUV and ˝ the mileage? I bet GM is selling a ton of those POS this week, aren’t they …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

I bet they sold more than honda sold insights though.

 

Hi Tom:

___This past week?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Let's face it, different strokes for different folks. The people that would buy an H2 at $2/gallon could care less about fuel economy at any price. A good portion of them would buy the same vehicle at $4 a gallon. Take solace in the fact that there are proportionately not a lot of them. Enough to make the prgram profitable enough to fund development of more fuel efficient vehicles. The decisions to not productionize a lightweight diesel hybrid was no doubt a different and unrelated decision than that to productionize an H2. And I don't care where you heard it, but if anybody thinks any company could launch a lightweight material diesel hybrid for $7,500 per unit cost, there are some decimal points misplaced or some uncontrolled substances flowing freely. Without going into detail, rest assured that given what I do for a living, I see the details on programs like this cross my desk every week. I could sell a program like that at $7,500 per vehicle all day and all night. That's like suggesting Sony would pass on the option to market a $750 52" plasma TV.

Peace,

Martin

 

Hi Martin:

___Here are a 100 or so + links:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

___I have no idea what it actually cost and only had the links above which said $7,500 so many times as to make it an urban legend! Either way, PNGV used my tax dollars for the common good and what became of it? 3 manufacturer’s w/ prototypes and at least (2) GM Precepts that ran the HWFET at 80 + mpg some 6 + years ago all the while meeting Tier II/Bin5!

___In regards to the H2, there was a post/thread just 2 or 3 days ago speaking about at least 1 Hummer dealership closing up shop. At $3.00 + per and many standing in line in different parts of the country for just 10 gallons of fuel, it isn’t the $ cost that is the problem. It is however the worry about one’s safety while filling one of those pigs with 100 Econobox owners standing in line behind you

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

For those that didn't catch the reference, I believe this was a backhanded way of saying that GM's hybrids are based on a similar system to what they use in their hybrid city busses.

 

CORRECT. I can confirm that part. That ain't the part that would get me fired.

Here's a link to a bus story http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....tentid=4022529

and here's a snip from about 2/3 of the way into the article.....

GM says that the hybrid system being used in the hybrid transit buses today will be scaled and transferred in full-size sport-utility vehicles and full-size pickup truck in the next few years. "These buses are incredibly significant for us," explained King County Executive Ron Sims, "We wanted a 21st century bus with lower operation and maintenance costs that wouldn't be dependent solely on petroleum-based products. We wanted a bus that would literally improve our air quality in a very significant way, and we wanted a bus that is a complete technology."

Peace,

Martin

 

Hi Martin:

___Last post of the night, I promise … possibly

___Are the P1/2 tranny based SUV hybrid’s still scheduled for mid to late 07?

___A poor pic of the P1/2 mock up I took at the Chicago Auto show press event earlier this year … Nobody from GM was around to talk about it for some reason



___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net