DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
#1
08-26-2005, 01:05 PM
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DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
DaimlerChrysler AG and General Motors Corp. have finalized a deal to co-develop new hybrid vehicle technology, a GM spokesman said on Thursday. In December, the automakers announced a tentative agreement to develop hybrids as they try to catch up with Japanese rivals on the fuel-saving systems that reduce harmful emissions.
#2
08-26-2005, 01:13 PM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
It's like GM is trying to get a little league team together while Toyota and Honda have a major league team. Why is this so! I wonder if it's going to be as great as the Caddy that would cut out the cylinders a few years ago? What was that the northstar system?If my memory is correct it went over pretty bad.Kevin
#3
08-26-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
Hi Texashchman:
___We all know both the HSD and IMA are not perfect. The problem I have is that both Toyota and Honda are improving upon the previous gen and very quickly I might add. The US manufacturers better have more then their toes in the water because if PO is actually upon us, Ford, GM, and DCC are literally “the walking dead” without anything to fall back upon other then a 26/35 mpg w/ a stick Focus, 29/36 mpg w/ a stick Neon, and 27/35 mpg w/ a stick rated Aveo. These higher FE based domestics cannot compete with a non-hybrid 32/41 mpg w/ a stick Corolla, or a 32/38 mpg w/ a stick Civic, let alone the HCH I, upcoming HCH II, Prius I and II, as well as the upcoming Camry hybrid.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___We all know both the HSD and IMA are not perfect. The problem I have is that both Toyota and Honda are improving upon the previous gen and very quickly I might add. The US manufacturers better have more then their toes in the water because if PO is actually upon us, Ford, GM, and DCC are literally “the walking dead” without anything to fall back upon other then a 26/35 mpg w/ a stick Focus, 29/36 mpg w/ a stick Neon, and 27/35 mpg w/ a stick rated Aveo. These higher FE based domestics cannot compete with a non-hybrid 32/41 mpg w/ a stick Corolla, or a 32/38 mpg w/ a stick Civic, let alone the HCH I, upcoming HCH II, Prius I and II, as well as the upcoming Camry hybrid.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#5
08-26-2005, 08:19 PM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
Hi Texashchman:
___Yes, you are correct … Along with that, the profits are so minimal on these 3 sub-compact/compacts compared to what the Big 2.5 or whatever they are called today make on the larger gas pigs that the point is moot. GM, Ford, and DCC could sell 5 E6 of these little wonders a year and they would still go bankrupt. That is if oil prices continue to rise like they have in the last 2 years and continue upward as time moves on due to PO or whatever. They (Ford, GM, and DCC) are in deep trouble because they have nothing available here in the States. In Europe, Ford and Peugeot have some very efficient and Euro IV complaint diesels but here? Nothing, Nadda, Zip … DCC has some very advanced Diesel tech as well but I have no idea about GM overseas? I do not see the EPA caving in on Tier II/Bin5 either which is probably a good thing until it starts costing millions in the unemployment lines if it comes to that
___My father worked for Outboard Marine (Johnson/Evinrude outboards). I saw a similar scenario work its way through that company slowly bleeding it over the years until one day, it was boarded up and that was it. Just pieces still survive under I believe a Canadian companies ownership. Back then, it was the Super Dollar with the Japanese employing engineers for 1/3 the wage of those in the US. Honda/Yamaha in particular IIRC? Today, it might be the low FE of the domestic offerings that could lead to a similar slow death scenario. Quality, safety, and FE perceptions as well as past snafu’s (Exploder, Diesel from a Gasser, VCM without the advanced electronics, paint peeling …) all the while Toyota is hitting record profits as is Honda. Ford, GM, and DCC are slowly sinking in the mire and I do not see a stop to it. How could the CEO’s of these huge corporations not know about PO years ago? If they had, at least they would have had some time to prepare. Right now, the clock is ticking and I am afraid for the hundreds of thousands of workers building all those Expeditions, Yukon’s, Durango’s, F150’s, Silverado’s, and Ram’s, as well as the millions of others from inside and outside the industry supporting and building a lineup that is not making a single dollar for the respective corporations …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Yes, you are correct … Along with that, the profits are so minimal on these 3 sub-compact/compacts compared to what the Big 2.5 or whatever they are called today make on the larger gas pigs that the point is moot. GM, Ford, and DCC could sell 5 E6 of these little wonders a year and they would still go bankrupt. That is if oil prices continue to rise like they have in the last 2 years and continue upward as time moves on due to PO or whatever. They (Ford, GM, and DCC) are in deep trouble because they have nothing available here in the States. In Europe, Ford and Peugeot have some very efficient and Euro IV complaint diesels but here? Nothing, Nadda, Zip … DCC has some very advanced Diesel tech as well but I have no idea about GM overseas? I do not see the EPA caving in on Tier II/Bin5 either which is probably a good thing until it starts costing millions in the unemployment lines if it comes to that
___My father worked for Outboard Marine (Johnson/Evinrude outboards). I saw a similar scenario work its way through that company slowly bleeding it over the years until one day, it was boarded up and that was it. Just pieces still survive under I believe a Canadian companies ownership. Back then, it was the Super Dollar with the Japanese employing engineers for 1/3 the wage of those in the US. Honda/Yamaha in particular IIRC? Today, it might be the low FE of the domestic offerings that could lead to a similar slow death scenario. Quality, safety, and FE perceptions as well as past snafu’s (Exploder, Diesel from a Gasser, VCM without the advanced electronics, paint peeling …) all the while Toyota is hitting record profits as is Honda. Ford, GM, and DCC are slowly sinking in the mire and I do not see a stop to it. How could the CEO’s of these huge corporations not know about PO years ago? If they had, at least they would have had some time to prepare. Right now, the clock is ticking and I am afraid for the hundreds of thousands of workers building all those Expeditions, Yukon’s, Durango’s, F150’s, Silverado’s, and Ram’s, as well as the millions of others from inside and outside the industry supporting and building a lineup that is not making a single dollar for the respective corporations …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#6
08-26-2005, 09:17 PM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
Anyone see this news?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005..._piles_on.html
Moody's Investors Service lowered the ratings of Ford and GM to junk status.
The downgrades affect a total of some $320 billion in debt between the two companies.
The downgrades affect a total of some $320 billion in debt between the two companies.
#7
08-28-2005, 05:15 AM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
I actually wouldn't put it past GM/DC to make bad hybrids on purpose, just so they can trumpet the engineered "failure" of technology. Then they can say to the Red State crowd, "See... we *tried* building hybrids, but they just didn't work! How about an all-new coal-burning Hummer?"
#9
08-28-2005, 08:31 AM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
Hi AshenGrey:
___The domestic automobile producers do not have a choice but to improve FE mightily as the market is demanding it now. There can be no more excuses like “We tried” or “Hybrid’s do not work”, or “the Technology is a failure” anymore due to real world gas and oil prices …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Originally Posted by AshenGrey
"See... we *tried* building hybrids, but they just didn't work! How about an all-new coal-burning Hummer?"
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#10
08-28-2005, 09:35 AM
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Re: DaimlerChrysler, GM sign hybrid pact
Ditto to what xcel said - hybrids work and if GM does not make a hybrid of their own they will eventually go out of business. The automotive and energy industries simply do not have that level of power.
Someone at work has been telling me someone built a car in the early 1970's that ran on water, but Detroit stoped them....lets think about this. You mean that if someone developed an 80mpg sedan or affordable alternative-fuel car, Detroit could just kill it? They could keep it from happening in Germany (with a SPD/Green Party coalition)? They could stop it in Japan, who imports all their energy? They could stop China from doing it?
I won't deny that Detroit would like to make gas-guzzlers as long as possible or the energy industry would like to continue with "business as usual", but the times are changing and they can't stop it.
Someone at work has been telling me someone built a car in the early 1970's that ran on water, but Detroit stoped them....lets think about this. You mean that if someone developed an 80mpg sedan or affordable alternative-fuel car, Detroit could just kill it? They could keep it from happening in Germany (with a SPD/Green Party coalition)? They could stop it in Japan, who imports all their energy? They could stop China from doing it?
I won't deny that Detroit would like to make gas-guzzlers as long as possible or the energy industry would like to continue with "business as usual", but the times are changing and they can't stop it.
