I just competed with other hybrids in a Rally

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  #11  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:32 AM
cwerdna's Avatar
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Default Re: I just competed with other hybrids in a Rally

Congrats!
Originally Posted by kenny
I don't even know what the scan gauge is, sorry.
http://www.scangauge.com/

I've got one hooked up to my Prius.

I think some folks on cleanmpg.com have some Insight II driving techniques involving ScanGauge but I haven't looked carefully. My Google-fu isn't working too well right now.
 
  #12  
Old 01-30-2010, 08:19 AM
kenny's Avatar
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Default Re: I just competed with other hybrids in a Rally

Speaking of driving techniques. . . hypermiling tips are easy to Google up, so I will not make a long list.
I will, though, say three things in perhaps a new way.

Hybrid cars convert kinetic (moving) energy into electrical energy, store it, then convert it back into kinetic energy.
But no system is perfectly lossless.
They can only recover about 30% of the energy.
That means 70% is wasted.
I’d rather waste 0%.

That’s my goal and here’s how I reach for it. . .
I avoid using my brakes.
I drive as if they have failed.

The gas I use to get up to speed takes me further if I don’t use the brakes.
Obviously no matter how careful you are you HAVE to use your brakes sometimes.
But I consider it a little failure when I have to brake.
It means I used some gas a moment ago that I didn’t need to use.
I got up to 35 MPH when 25 would have been adequate or I held my speed too late.
I learn from my mistakes, and try to do better each day.

Of course this mentality results in driving slower, leaving a ton of room in front of you, and looking far ahead to avoid brake use.
Think of it as not using the gas to begin with to get up to an unnecessary speed or holding that speed any longer than needed.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Next, discover the coasting rate of your car. Here's how:
Get up to speed.
Put it in neutral.
Pay attention to your rate of slowing down.

THAT is the rate you want to copy every time you slow down.
IOW, do not lift your foot all the way off of the gas pedal.
Lifting your foot off the pedal uses the compression of your engine, and some gas, to slow you down.
In time your foot will learn how to gently find that coasting rate which uses no gas and does not charge the battery.
Don’t worry, the computer will ensure the battery stays charged, and besides, you will never be able to perfectly master this and will be braking from time to time.

The effect of what I'm advocating with these two points is avoiding using the very hybridness of your hybrid car.
It's ironic but I get the best MPG from my hybrid by trying to NOT use its hybrid system.
This is counter-intuitive.
The famous hypermiler Wayne Gerdes got 60 MPG out of a regular accord.

Lastly, stop trying to make the cars behind you happy.
Be selfish, sort of.
I do pull to another lane to let cars pass and try to be somewhat considerate, but my priority is to save gas.
Tailgaters love their cars a lot, and have not slammed into me yet. Knock on wood.

These three things I have been perfecting for six years now.
 
  #13  
Old 01-30-2010, 08:04 PM
cwerdna's Avatar
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Default Re: I just competed with other hybrids in a Rally

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510 is a great summary of hypermiling techniques from Wayne Gerdes himself.
Originally Posted by kenny
Lifting your foot off the pedal uses the compression of your engine, and some gas, to slow you down.
In time your foot will learn how to gently find that coasting rate which uses no gas and does not charge the battery.
Don’t worry, the computer will ensure the battery stays charged, and besides, you will never be able to perfectly master this and will be braking from time to time.

The effect of what I'm advocating with these two points is avoiding using the very hybridness of your hybrid car.
It's ironic but I get the best MPG from my hybrid by trying to NOT use its hybrid system.
This is counter-intuitive.
The famous hypermiler Wayne Gerdes got 60 MPG out of a regular accord.
Actually, in the case of hybrids, lifting your foot off the accelerator causes from regen to slow you down (besides other losses such as friction and wind resistance). Unfortunately, regen inherently causes losses too. (I can see 10-20 amps going into the HV battery on my Prius if I lift off the accelerator on level ground, thanks to ScanGauge)

The technique you're referring to is essentially pulse and glide. You can see this on the displays on a 2nd gen Prius by seeing no arrows aka dead-banding (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1224). In such a state, I still see some draw from the HV battery (about 7-8 amps IIRC, instead of 1.x-2.x while stopped).

Yep, regarding not using the hybrid system. Over in Prius land, people have put together documents like those at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-p...provement.html. At http://priuschat.com/forums/attachme...ence051408.pdf, they mention
One should still seek to minimize regenerative braking because of the energy losses upon conversion to and from the HV battery.
I refer to this as the Hybrid Paradox: You bought the car for the economy of the battery, but must minimize use of the battery for optimal ecomomy.
 
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