• Hardware and software was not perfected in 2000 (the model with the most problems)
• Many of the Insights are 5-speed, meaning more drain on the batteries if you upshift early (lug the engine)
• The battery pack is relatively small
• Too many people attempt to drive the Insight as if it's a performance car. It is not! It was designed to be the most fuel-efficient gas-powered mass-produced car to date (still is)
• It's been out in the US longer than any other hybrid

The Insight in a niche car, meaning if you drive it around the speed limit and for excellent fuel economy, it will deliver. If someone attempts to drive it like a pocket rocket, the results will be as predictable as your heart health after ten years of eating chicken-fried steak daily.

Unfortunately, battery problems like this may meant Honda will never pair a hybrid with a standard transmission again.

 

wow. i knew i could count on the people on this forum to have the knowledge i need.

my insight 5 speed is not even 6 months old and has about 6500 miles on it. i don't drive like a race car driver. i drive under the speed limit, i gradually accelerate and decelerate to maximize gas mileage. one thing i do that delta flyer pointed out as being hard on the battery life, is i upshift a bit aggressively, but not overly so. i don't generally upshift before the indicator light comes on. occasionally i will, esp between 4th and 5th.

i live at the top of a hill, and if my battery is full at the bottom of the hill, it is about 3/4 full by the time i get to the top. the next time i leave home, i coast down the hill and the battery is charged by the time i get to the bottom.

this morning, my battery was completely empty (despite the fact that it was over half full when i parked it the night before). after reading this thread, i take it this was my battery recalibrating. my car has also gotten terrible gas mileage the last tank (okay, so i'm spoiled. terrible means less than 65). right now, my mileage is barely above 60. also, even the tiniest of hill depletes the battery much more than it used to. now, i arrive home with the battery less than half full, instead of the usual 3/4 full. this morning, my completely full battery discharged about 20% just going over one simple freeway overpass. this never used to happen. a freeway overpass *might* cause it to go down 1 bar, if even that. this time it went down several bars.

this is disconcerting to me, as my battery and car are basically brand new. from the way it's described, the recalibration seems to mean the beginning of the end. 6000 miles is way too short of a time to see the deterioration/death of a battery. no lights have come on indicating any failure. the "maint req" light has been flashing, and when i asked the dealer about it, he said it starts flashing at about 6K to warn you of your impending 7500 tune up.

one other thing that my car has started doing lately is that sometimes i'll be driving on the freeway, and the car will suddenly sort of go "thunk". when this happens, i lose power for a moment, like the car had a brain fart or something. then the car starts using the battery, and the mileage DROPS for a few moments. then all is back to normal. i have no idea if this is related to the battery recal. has anyone ever experienced this?

also, has anyone experienced the auto stop not turning the car back on after you put the car back into gear? this happens more frequently than i'd like. the car is literally dead, and i have to take the car out of gear and put it back into gear and then the car starts up again. this doesn't suck as long as you're on flat land, but putting the car in gear and taking you foot off the break when you're pointed up a hill really sucks when you start to slide backwards into the car in back of you.

thanks much

tracey

 

Hi Tracey,



Just a couple comments; don’t worry about the recalibrations. Honda recently modified the way the batteries are discharged and charged. I have a 2000 Insight manual transmission; Honda recently replaced its IMA controller (main computer) since then it actually “recalibrates” more often. They stated in a letter alone with the recall notice (to have the IMA controller changed), that the battery should fully charge then discharges to a low state, over and over. Before, it would charge up, stay charged depending on how or where I drive, then re-cal at random times. Cycling more and using the charge helps battery life.



About the auto stop, I had this problem originally also. I realized that it was caused by me. To get in or out of auto-stop mode and have the engine start up when the shifter is put into 1st gear, you must press the clutch all the way to the floor. If you are at a stop and just put the clutch in enough to get into first gear, it might not be enough to trigger it out of auto-stop mode, you must press the clutch all the way to the floor. At least that is what happened to me, you may be having a different problem.



Hope that helps,



Ryan

 

ryan,

i wouldn't worry about the recalibration if it didn't leave a lasting ill effect. ever since the recalibration, my battery will not charge all the way up. it *rarely* reaches full, and even when it does hit full, even the TINIEST use of the battery assist will drop the battery level to 3/4 full. not much more assist and i'm at half full or below.

this means that my car is in forced charge mode for an annoyingly high percentage of time, and my gas mileage is horrible. i can barely keep it above 60, and before this happened, i was averaging almost 67. (66.7).

my car only has 6500 miles on it. i can't believe that the battery would already be bad.

i am taking it in on friday to the dealer for service. i will need knowledge and ammo so they don't try to blow me off. (one of the things that sucks about being female. you simply cannot walk into an auto service station without being screwed over.) i don't want to hear them say that this behavior is normal and fine.

tracey

 

Didn't Honda extend the IMA/battery warranty to 10 years/150,000 miles?

 

so. i took my car to the dealership for its 7500 mile service yesterday. i took it in a little early because of the battery issue.

i described to him that the battery problems started happening immediately after the recalibration. he said "where did you have the recalibration done?"

omg. i'm not feeling so happy about the level of "expertise" at the service department.

this was anderson honda in palo alto. i'm wondering if someone knows of a better service department in the area.

 

Appeal - go up the ladder

 

I've had good luck with Larry Hopkins Honda in Sunnyvale. They're not perfect, but they are honest, and they seem patient and persistent when investigating problems.

 

Tracey - My orig 2000 5 spd battery recal'd maybe 4 times a week, and it went 178,000 miles OK. I live on the top of a 1000 ft hill and drained it at least half way down daily and refilled it the next morning. If it recal's overnite thats OK as long as it can start the engine the next day, if you hear the 12V starter when you start up the main battery is dead. Recals just mean the electronics have lost knowledge of where the battery SOC really is. When it really is empty or gone high resistance then its time for a replacement. Some orig batteries have gone over 400,000 miles while others that were unused went at 4,000 miles. I have found that I get best mileage by downshifting so that I hardy ever use assist in hill climbing. Basically I only use the elec assist to get up to cruising speed.
When Honda replaced my battery, BCM and MCM with a new one ( all free at that) The new unit has never recal'd in 2 months - never lets the SOC go below half full and is far more agressive in recharging the battery. The algorithms are really well done. This pack should last a lot longer than the orig did and of course the car has trained me well.
Most times at a dealership you only get to talk with a service advisor who is clueless. My local dealership (Lorenz Honda, Greenfield mass) is great the advisor is knowledgeble and I have insisted, and they let me, talk directly with the tech who knows what it is alll about. Smaller dealership sometimes are the best. Good luck with your Insight I know I will put another 200,000 on mine . Ted

 

ted,

thanks for the info on service stations and driving patterns. i also live at the top of a hill. my battery is usually 3/4 full by the time i get home, then fully charged again by the time i get to the bottom. i think i rely more on the assist to get me up the hill than you do. i do downshift a lot in that car when going up hills, accelerating onto the freeway, etc. (i shift a lot in general. the insight doesn't have power to spare, so you really do have to compensate for that fact by shifting.)

so, here's the results of the service. they tested everything. the battery capacity is still 100%, 12v battery is fine, no codes, etc.

but, there was a nail in the left rear tire. since the tire is under the skirt, i didn't see it. the tire was very slowly leaking. it wasn't flat, but it was low.

they repaired the tire, but that was the only thing wrong with the car.

since getting the car back, the battery no longer dumps at the slightest acceleration or use of the assist, and the charging seems back to normal. however, the battery meter will still never reach "full". it gets to within 2 or 3 bars from the top, and it seems to think it's full. nothing more will fill the battery, no matter how much the charge lights are on.

i've heard people reiterate over and over that tire pressure has a big effect on gas mileage, but i never thought it would have effects this extreme. the low tire dropped my mileage by over 10%.

i'm happy that the battery no longer dumps on moderate use, but i would like to understand why the meter will not ever read full. with the top bars always being empty, the car still does hit force charge mode more often than it used to.

i think perhaps the computer is still confused about how full the battery is. the recalibration most likely happened when the tire was low. could that have helped to confuse the computer? do i just have to wait until the next recal for it to unconfuse itself?