Hey RIHCH, what's the date on that Mother Goose & Grimm comic in your signature? It's hilarious! If I know the date, I can download the real thing, and put it up on my wall at work. Thanks!

 

Sorry about that, I put in the wrong picture.

Sure Chuck

www.grimmy.com
Comic Archives
6/15/2005

 

Thanks Glen; that comic is going right up on my outside cubicle wall, since everybody knows I have a hybrid. Another conversation piece.

I guess I'd better add something of value to this thread while I'm here. I got the update about three weeks ago, and since then, on my simple work commute (6 miles, 13 lights/stopsigns), my MPG had probably gone from around 48 to around 50. However, I attribute this just to normal circumstances, most likely the heat (it has been over 100 most of those days, and my timing allows me to avoid the A/C).

On the highway, after a couple of super trips at just below 70 mph with the A/C on, getting 52+ mpg, I was disappointed returning from LA to see my MPG, under what I thought the same conditions, only yield about 47. A couple trips to/from the airport at 65 mph yielded 51-52 mpg, as normal. Not sure why the difference.

So in summary, I don't think the recall update really did anything, MPG-wise, for my HCH. Which is as I would have suspected, since us CA folks don't have the lean-burn version of the HCH anyway.

One thing I think I have observed, however, is that running the A/C on the freeway seems to have much less impact on mileage, than running it in the city. Perhaps it's just me and the circumstances I was in, but that seems to have been my limited experience so far.

 

coyote--Are you sure California cars aren't affected? I have a California vehicle, bought new there and shipped to Hawaii and it was affected.

I got a copy of Honda's notice on the recall to the Service Mangagers. Dated June 17th. FYI for everyone, here is what it said, nothing really different than sent to consumers except the detail that the IMA battery could overcharge, and the VPS isn't mentioned in the consumer letter.

Says that the issue affects all 2003-2004 and 2005 up to a certain VIN number.

74,000 vehicles were affected.

Repair updates the PGM-FI, the valve pause system (VPS) and the IMA battery software.

If you live in California, better get it done because the DMV may require the certificate re your emissions.

The problems over time are catalyst deterioration.
The PCM would store DTC P0420 or could set DTC P1021.

Also the IMA might overcharge under certain driving conditions. (not specified).
The PGM-FI and VPS are to be ud\pdated as well as the IMA battery software.

Nothing is said about mpg.

 

Second reply, different comment:

I had the update done, got my car back (not washed, but with paper floor mats). Started it, the start was noisy, not right for my car, which is sooo quiet. The tech came out and listened to it, same guy who had done the update. Looks at me like I'm kind of dumb and informs me that what I hear is the starter. I agree that it's the starter but it does not sound like when I brought it in.

Then the very nice service customer relations person listens. She hears that it's making too much noise for the HCH. She immediately says they will keep the car and check it out.

So, it turns out that the same tech who said it sounded FINE also left the key turned on while he did the update, so that my regular battery was drained and killed. The dealer didn't have a battery; one was ordered to arrive the next day. So my car was in the shop for another full day. Although it didn't cost me for the part, because it was a) their fault and b) it's still under full warranty)--it was inconvenient and not terribly inspiring of confidence in the tech. First he screws it up and then he can't hear that there's a problem--which turns out to be that there isn't much juice so the starter was straining to turn the engine over. I would expect a mechanic to recognize something that common.

Good part is that I was validated that I KNOW how my car sounds and feels, and even if it's hard to explain exactly how it has changed, I recognized a difference and the problem was very real. Had I listened to the tech dismiss my concern, I would have driven it home and had a dead battery in the morning.

 

Did you know there are two ways to start the car? From the IMA motor and from an auxilary starter? If your IMA battery is drained the car starts like a normal car with a normal starter.

Just an FYI.

The tech shouldn't have drained your battery anywyay. I hope he learned something from the lesson.

 

No, I didn't know there were two ways to start it. Interesting. I've never had a problem before. The tech should have learned something because the result was they had to give me a new battery. They decided right away to replace the battery, so I guess there was no question that it was salvageable.

It was still lame of him. I had to change my schedule all around for two days instead of the one afternoon I'd expected. It's not particularly fun to go to Honda. It's hot, the parking is a zoo, and you have to stand around and wait (no chairs in service) waiting for the right person to be available ... go through the loaner paperwork, drive a car that's not as nice, etc.. But mostly I'm annoyed that he didn't figure out his own mistake and didn't believe me right away when I said there was a problem.

 

Okay, I was pretty imprecise. What I intended to say was that:

1. My understanding was that the issue that the update fixed had to do with lean burn and it's effect on the catalytic converter; and that since we CARB (AT-PZEV) states folk do not have the lean burn version, that therefore I didn't believe that the update would effect my HCH. But then, I'm absolutely no expert in this area. And also,

2. Since some of the more hopeful folks (me included) were thinking that maybe, just maybe, there would be a positive effect on MPG, perhaps because as a side-effect of the programming change. I now believe that not to be the case, based on my experience.

So you are correct in what you say, sorry for the confusion.

 

My understanding of the problem is not to address "lean burn", but to address the car running lean at idle under certain conditions. If this is the case, then PZEV vs ULEV does not matter. It is an issue on how much fuel is used at idle.

 

All it says on Honda's website under specifications is that the HCH has a "lean burn ignition system" with dual immobilizer. It does have a star next to carb rating and says that the SULEV versions differ slightly.

But I thought lean burn was just where when you ease up on the pedal, you see a huge increase in the instant MPG display. I see that on mine, so does that mean it is not a lean burn effect?