Irony at the pump (long)
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
From: El Cerrito, CA
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by toast64
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...civic%20hybrid
And, I should have been more specific, my rant was about the 18 mpg CITY that they gave the EX w/automatic. At least, that's the number I remember (but remember, I was ranting, and it's hard to be specific when ranting
). 
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
From: Central PA
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Toast,
I have a copy of that article at home - I also looked at it (and I'm a packrat - Don't throw stuff out) before buying my car. What in particular are you looking for, just the EX automatic mileage numbers from CR?
Eric
I have a copy of that article at home - I also looked at it (and I'm a packrat - Don't throw stuff out) before buying my car. What in particular are you looking for, just the EX automatic mileage numbers from CR?
Eric
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 369
From: Indianapolis
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
More about the octane rating...... The HCH engine is optomized for 87 octane fuel: meaning that the engine's spark timing among other things are optimized for the combustion of this particular type of fuel. While the electronic engine management of modern engines will make adjustments for higher octanes to prevent damage to the engine, it will give you no advantage in terms of performance. The higher energy content of higher octane fuel will be wasted, along with your extra money.
Good luck with your hybrid!
Good luck with your hybrid!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 609
From: New Mexico
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by ElanC
From the huge differences between city and highway MPG for ALL vehicles, it seems like CR simulates city driving by drag racing the cars.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 474
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
If you doubt that the environmental concern is as valid a practical upgrade as ride quality, comfort, or performance, then think about this web site. It's proof positive that you're mistaken. Just like any web site dedicated to engine tweaking, car audio , custom paint jobs, etc. This site (and others like it) is dedicated to and frequented by a large group of people for whom the environmental element is not simply a silly impractical tree-hugger concern. Very few of us bought a hybrid for the financial payoff, we bought it for ecological comfort. For me there is no more important upgrade, and many here share my position, so passing that off as an unimportant benefit is definitely not accurate.
You ignore the fact that the additional add-on benefit of the hybrid (other than financial payback) is earth friendly operation. This is no less significant than driver comfort, performance, etc. Just like you say the owner must weigh the value of this benefit against the cost. No difference, except that wich this one, and this one only, there's a synergetic benefit of the payback potential which none of the others have. You can't just assume nobody cares about anything but the money and then judge it specially by that criteria alone.
I'm also aware of less wear and tear on brakes and other ancillary benefits.That variable is quite significant given my commute, most people in my area go through brakes often, and get poor mileage due to the hills. Though my mlieage is worse than it could be due to the hills, regenerative braking means I should see more of a fuel savings from hybrid vs. non-hybrid even if my absolute mileage is lower.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 609
From: New Mexico
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by Double-Trinity
I will say I agree, that was also another factor in me deciding to get this vehicle. I do agree that it is a valid concern, and one worth paying a bit extra for, however, I was just making the poitn why most people who are doing the cost benefit comparisons in articles do so with hybrid drivetrains and not so much so with other features, which have more apparent (but not necessarily more important) "paybacks." The conclusions of most of those articles is that although it may end up costing slightly more to buy hybrid technology, the fact that the emissions are much lower is still a valid reason to choose it, and I would agree. I was not attempting to pass it off as unimportant, though it is difficult to quantify in the form of a cost/benefit discussion as is seen on these various articles etc.
I didn't mean to assume that nobody cares about anything but money, I was simply discussing the monetary payback aspect of hybrids. When I mentioned that there are rewards given due to its cleaner emissions, I did not mean to say the clean emissiosn would be worthless or unimportant without those, simply that that's another financial variable. Many articles doing such comparisons have mentioned the fact that the emissions alone are a fine reason to opt for a hybrid (what I was getting at with my "I'd prefer to support the technology if the cost is close" comment), I should have stated so more clearly myself.
I'm also aware of less wear and tear on brakes and other ancillary benefits.That variable is quite significant given my commute, most people in my area go through brakes often, and get poor mileage due to the hills. Though my mlieage is worse than it could be due to the hills, regenerative braking means I should see more of a fuel savings from hybrid vs. non-hybrid even if my absolute mileage is lower.
I didn't mean to assume that nobody cares about anything but money, I was simply discussing the monetary payback aspect of hybrids. When I mentioned that there are rewards given due to its cleaner emissions, I did not mean to say the clean emissiosn would be worthless or unimportant without those, simply that that's another financial variable. Many articles doing such comparisons have mentioned the fact that the emissions alone are a fine reason to opt for a hybrid (what I was getting at with my "I'd prefer to support the technology if the cost is close" comment), I should have stated so more clearly myself.
I'm also aware of less wear and tear on brakes and other ancillary benefits.That variable is quite significant given my commute, most people in my area go through brakes often, and get poor mileage due to the hills. Though my mlieage is worse than it could be due to the hills, regenerative braking means I should see more of a fuel savings from hybrid vs. non-hybrid even if my absolute mileage is lower.
Your points are well taken. My reaction to your post was based largely on the fact that it's painfully obvious that the hybrids are being treated mostly financially by most of the reviewers. We don't really need a reminder about that.
My point was that by doing so for the hybrid, and never really evaluating the cost/benefit of any other upgrades, they make it seem like they hybrid upgrade is sort of a waste when actuallythe opposite is true. Upgrading to the 'hemi' or any other muscle building does nothing but increase fuel consumption and operating costs and has no means to pay for itself in savings of any kind. Same is true with stereo upgrades, sunroofs, or any other upgrade they typically think are nice options. None of them are ever evaluated from a cost/benefit perspective. So then, when they do that analysys on the hybrid as if it were a necessary payoff, then naturally they conclude it might not be a good idea. Do they ever decide that about engine or stereo upgrades? How about sunroofs or navi systems? No. Because power and prowess are treated as god-given rights, while environmental considerations are treated, at best, as optional, if not wasteful.
My gripe is with them, not with you. :-)
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 335
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by williaea
Toast,
I have a copy of that article at home - I also looked at it (and I'm a packrat - Don't throw stuff out) before buying my car. What in particular are you looking for, just the EX automatic mileage numbers from CR?
Eric
I have a copy of that article at home - I also looked at it (and I'm a packrat - Don't throw stuff out) before buying my car. What in particular are you looking for, just the EX automatic mileage numbers from CR?
Eric
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 128
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Read the cover story in Time Magazine (not an extremist magazine) on global warming and you will realize you bought the car to help your great grandchildren survive (but probably not next to a major body of water)..
very well put!
