Irony at the pump (long)
#21
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Another point to consider before you decide whether the hybrid upgrade is a farse or not. Will ANY OTHER car upgrade EVER pay you back financially? No, so why should the hybrid upgrade fall under that scrutiny when no other upgrade does? So it might take a while to pay you back if it ever does, but hey, it's the ONLY upgrade that even has that potential.
And, doing things the right way usually costs more. Building a car that uses fuel more efficiently is more expensive, and that's what it costs to use less gas. "Better" and "cheaper" do not always go together, in fact they rarely do, cheaper is just cheaper in my book. Regardless, a honda is built to do hundreds of thousands of miles. It will pay you back, it may take a while but no other car upgrade will do that, so easy on the bellyaching and enjoy your 'green' car.
And, doing things the right way usually costs more. Building a car that uses fuel more efficiently is more expensive, and that's what it costs to use less gas. "Better" and "cheaper" do not always go together, in fact they rarely do, cheaper is just cheaper in my book. Regardless, a honda is built to do hundreds of thousands of miles. It will pay you back, it may take a while but no other car upgrade will do that, so easy on the bellyaching and enjoy your 'green' car.
Last edited by zimbop; 03-26-2006 at 09:11 PM.
#22
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Cityscapex5 says it all for me in his post below! I am not a hypermiler but I do accelerate gently and watch my revs and consistently average over 40 mpg. I also believe that the value of the unseen but incredible engineering and technology fully explains any price differential!
#23
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by zimbop
Another point to consider before you decide whether the hybrid upgrade is a farse or not. Will ANY OTHER car upgrade EVER pay you back financially? No, so why should the hybrid upgrade fall under that scrutiny when no other upgrade does? So it might take a while to pay you back if it ever does, but hey, it's the ONLY upgrade that even has that potential.
Reduced fuel consumption does have a secondary benefit of enabling longer driving range on a single tank, but the same thing could also be accomplished easier by using a larger tank. Another benefit is the fact that there is less reduced emissions, but this is an externality, so the purchaser of the vehicle does not see a direct, tangible benefit from this either, aside from government subsidies designed to reward this (which can be a significant financial incentive, or time-saver in the case of the HOV stickers).
Based on the above reasons (fuel savings, and kickbacks) I decided getting the Hybrid over the non-hybrid was about a break-even deal long-term, what pushed me over the edge though is the fact I'd like to support the technology as I believe it has more potential in the future, if it can get early market acceptance.
#24
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by Double-Trinity
When doing cost/benefit analysis on say, adding on air conditioning, the purchaser must evaluate if the added comfort is worth the initial cost and extra fuel overhead. The main benefit of hybrid technology is reduced fuel consumption, and by extension, savings in fuel cost, so the question there is if fuel savings will eventually outweight the initial capital cost.
#25
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by Double-Trinity
A simple criticism of this poitn woudl be that most other add-ons have some other payoff, either in improving ride quality, performance, comfort, or some other non-monetary benefit. When doing cost/benefit analysis on say, adding on air conditioning, the purchaser must evaluate if the added comfort is worth the initial cost and extra fuel overhead. The main benefit of hybrid technology is reduced fuel consumption, and by extension, savings in fuel cost, so the question there is if fuel savings will eventually outweight the initial capital cost.
If you doubt that the environmental concern is as valid a practical upgrade as ride quality, comfort, or performance, then think about this web site. It's proof positive that you're mistaken. Just like any web site dedicated to engine tweaking, car audio , custom paint jobs, etc. This site (and others like it) is dedicated to and frequented by a large group of people for whom the environmental element is not simply a silly impractical tree-hugger concern. Very few of us bought a hybrid for the financial payoff, we bought it for ecological comfort. For me there is no more important upgrade, and many here share my position, so passing that off as an unimportant benefit is definitely not accurate.
Instead of seeing this car as something like "well it's supposed to be cheaper and it's not so it's not worth it unless you're whacky about that environmental stuff", this car should be treated like this, "It uses less gas than regular cars and it's got great environmental performance, PLUS it has the potential to pay back it's cost premium in gas savings like no other kind of car can, it's a no-brainer".
Last edited by zimbop; 03-27-2006 at 06:18 AM.
#27
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Dealers never say "sorry I don't know" so they make up an answer. We know more about the HCH's than they do! I found I was telling my sales guy things he had never heard of such as how the three stages of the 1.4 i-VTEC engine work.
#28
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by ElanC
I agree with the slam against CR, but let's be accurate. They claim 28 MPG for the EX and 37 MPG for the HCH.
Right now, out of 133 HCH IIs listed in the Green Hybrid database only 7 get 37 MPG or less.
Right now, out of 133 HCH IIs listed in the Green Hybrid database only 7 get 37 MPG or less.
Thanks.
#29
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by toast64
I'll have to try to find the article I'm referring to. Had a copy but I can't put my hands on it - may have thrown it away in disgust. I could be wrong - I'll look for it.
Thanks.
Thanks.
#30
Re: Irony at the pump (long)
Originally Posted by ElanC
I agree with the slam against CR, but let's be accurate. They claim 28 MPG for the EX and 37 MPG for the HCH.
Well, I checked the libraries today and could not come up with a copy of the CR article. I'm pretty sure it was in the February copy of CR. I could probably find it online, but I'm not payin' the 26 bucks! But I did find something similar on the CR web site that appears to be excerpted from the February article.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...civic%20hybrid
And, I should have been more specific, my rant was about the 18 mpg CITY that they gave the EX w/automatic. At least, that's the number I remember (but remember, I was ranting, and it's hard to be specific when ranting ).
You can see that in this listing they gave the HCH a 26 mpg city rating, and the MT EX a 22 mpg. I believe they gave the automatic an 18 in this same article, at least my memory tells me so. But the web post does not exactly match the article, so I'll continue my search for a paper copy.
The 26 mpg city for the hybrid is not mentioned in the site you referenced. But I remember reading the article shortly before buying my HCH II. I had been monitoring GH, and my mind said, "whoa! something IS NOT right here... "
Last edited by toast64; 03-28-2006 at 05:09 PM.