I guess you didn't see the last link my previous post.

This is not ethanol.org's study, they are simply hosting the PDF file. You can see the references listed in the file.

Studies that have been well critized and done by people with questionable ties to the oil industry (and I'm not a conspiracy theorist).

I know what you're talking about, I've seen news papers refer to it as a "clean" fuel. They really should be saying "cleaner than straight gasoline" fuel, I don't have any emission numbers right now though. You're saying ethanol still adds atleast 70% (where'd you get that number?) as much GHG as gasoline, isn't 70% better than 100%? If you're saying ethanol produces 70% as much GHGs as gasoline, that's an improvement over our current situation.

You always hear about people saying the government pays farmers not to grow crops to keep the prices up/stabilized. I live in KS but I have no idea how that works or if there was ever even a grain of truth to that. I do know that there is A LOT of farm land out there that is not being used and the we are the a HUGE net exporter of food.

Me personally I'd rather send my money to American farmers instead of the Saudi Royal Family, Kuwait's monarchy, Hugo Chavez, Vicente Fox, ect.

 

Moosh,
I had a 61 degree day in WNY. I took a short trip to get ice cream. The drive was in hilly terrain and 1/2 town and 1/2 country driving. This was with 2 other passengers. I got up to 57 mph a few times and also did 35 & 45 mph. I got 62.2 mpg and that includes losing 3 mpg in the drive thru line for ice cream. I love the better weather too. And imagine Consumer Reports says these cars can't get the EPA 51 mpg! They should change all their test methods to show what ALL cars are capable of - with careful driving techniques.
Regards,

 

EV Glide requires slight pressure to the accelerator. It's been my experience that the battery assistance is better served to keep the IMPG to around 75 for long periods of time, instead of trying to go a few extra yards with 100+ on the IMPG. Or, to go into EV Glide if I took my foot off the accelerator too soon and the HCH is about to stop 20 yards from the stop light.

I admit when I first got my HCH I did the EV Glide thing all the time because it was so cool to know that it wasn't using any gas at all, when the IMPG was at 100+. However, the speed bled fast and it couldn't be maintained for long. Not to mention how laborious the technique it.

So I started experimenting with getting to my target speed, letting off the accelerator lightly until the IMPG was around 75 and then holding still. The results were favorable. I was able to maintain it for long stretches and my battery wasn't drained when I had to stop, so Auto Stop would still work.

 

It's not their study. But I fully expect them to quote the studies that best represent their advocacy goals.


There is plenty of criticism all around. It's a highly politicized issue backed by huge economic interests. I can't really judge any of them. All I said is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.


Based on the optimistic study you linked, which claimed a positive energy ratio of 1.38, I think, from eathnol production, I translated that into ethanol contributing 70% as much GHG as gasoline, roughly. Yes, it's better than 100%. But it's a drop in the bucket. When we blend 10% ethanol into our gas we'll be lucky to get a 3% reduction in GHG emissions.

As hybrid owners you and I are saving much more than that. But it's still not enough.


There certainly was/is a program that pays farmers not to grow crops. Regardless, there was already mention on CNBC this morning of an ethanol shortage that is going to raise gasoline prices. And most of the country has not converted to 10% ethanol yet. Rising food prices will be inevitable when vehicles and people start competing for the same resources to fuel/feed them.

Sure we'd rather pay our farmers than the princes of Arabia. But ethanol from corn is going to accomplish very little both environmentally and in terms of foreign oil dependancy. Even with ethanol there are much better sources than corn, but the farm lobby is getting its way.

 

moosh, thanx for clearifying what you meant. I understand what you're saying and I actually did do some of that "coasting" instead of "EV glide" on my commute for the "1st time breaking 60mpg" thread, whenever I knew I wouldn't be in ev glide mode very long. However, there are some spots on my commute where you can stay in ev glide mode for a good amount of time. I have yet to see my battery meter under half, it's been at half many times but never below half and it's never not done autostop due to low battery. Cold temps yes, but not due to a low battery.

ElanC, I agree completely. I guess maybe you're just a little bit more critical of baby steps than I am. I've noticed a lot of people feel that way on various hybrid websites.