HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 237
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Originally Posted by lessevildave
The Civic HX doesn't have the hybrid bells and whistles, but it is built lightly and does have the 'lean burn' engine. The mileage (so far) has been good enough; dead on with the 'average' HCH mileage on this forum. I imagine I could probably get another 5~10MPG with the hybrid, but that net saving would take me many years to make up the cost difference with; enough time for the battery to need replacement and eat up that difference. I've had the car since 4/5, and have only put 600 miles on it. Doubling my previous fuel economy at a stroke was good enough. I'm back to paying '$1.25/Gallon' for gas again, the way the mileage works out. I'm a lot less likely to avoid a trip just because gasoline is 'expensive'.
1) 10mpg extra fuel economy.
2) Federal tax deduction of $2000
3) 4 doors instead of two
4) SULEV emissions instead of ULEV (in CA)
5) Illuminated ignition switch, power windows, a few other minor things.
6) Quieter engine operation
Other than the coolness factor, all of that might not be worth 5K extra.
Civic HX is a great car. It's funny, I've talked to people about it and they think it does not exist... LOL.
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 237
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Originally Posted by bigbearballs
I got my 03 HCH about 2 months ago. Now, I'm wondering why I didn't just go a little further and get an insight. The mpg numbers some of those guys are getting are outrageous. The insight seems to be cheaper used too, although they are limited numbers out there. So I ask you HCH owners, why not an insight?
I think insight would sell better if it were about the price of a Civic DX. It is the IDEAL commuter car.
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 387
From: Northern California
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
we also dont live in the same place, nor drive in the same areas, nor use the same techniques you do. also, not everybody drives 12,000 miles a year. some easily push this to twice the mileage. u cant make such a direct comparison just talking about one factor - the car.
congratulations about exceeding epa numbers and being above average. you are conserving gasoline and reducing potential emissions, helping the environment and yourself too. but at the same time, that doesn't give you liberty to talk with such hauteur. we're all here to support each other, not put each other down.
congratulations about exceeding epa numbers and being above average. you are conserving gasoline and reducing potential emissions, helping the environment and yourself too. but at the same time, that doesn't give you liberty to talk with such hauteur. we're all here to support each other, not put each other down.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,567
From: Northern Illinois
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Hi Lessevildave:
___Just a word or two …
___Pick up the Civic brochure. Open it up to the last 2 or 3 pages. Compare std. features of the HX (Coupe) vs. the LX/EX/HCH. You are driving a stripper by comparison.
___As for the “tude”, you have said a number of things about superfluous hybrid gauge clusters (incorrect), how 46 mpg is apparently the end all of non-hybrid’s (incorrect), and how a ULEV is good enough (in your opinion). Didn’t you mention something about higher RPM ranges for most efficient ICE operation as well? I have a link or two including personal experience to debate that one if you did mention this in this or another thread. Also insinuating that after the pack warranty runs out the car is essentially worthless (incorrect by a long shot) …
___I am glad you are beating the EPA and cannot wait to add you to the list but you are beating the EPa estimates by such a small margin that your advice and opinion is about as newbie as you can get imho. Why not stick around and learn a few FE tips and tricks, learn what options are and are not available in the HCH and Prius II, learn what the various levels of emissions actually mean, and most off, pull back on the attitude as you are battling with those that do in fact achieve far higher FE and have cleaner emissions in many cases.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Just a word or two …
___Pick up the Civic brochure. Open it up to the last 2 or 3 pages. Compare std. features of the HX (Coupe) vs. the LX/EX/HCH. You are driving a stripper by comparison.
___As for the “tude”, you have said a number of things about superfluous hybrid gauge clusters (incorrect), how 46 mpg is apparently the end all of non-hybrid’s (incorrect), and how a ULEV is good enough (in your opinion). Didn’t you mention something about higher RPM ranges for most efficient ICE operation as well? I have a link or two including personal experience to debate that one if you did mention this in this or another thread. Also insinuating that after the pack warranty runs out the car is essentially worthless (incorrect by a long shot) …
___I am glad you are beating the EPA and cannot wait to add you to the list but you are beating the EPa estimates by such a small margin that your advice and opinion is about as newbie as you can get imho. Why not stick around and learn a few FE tips and tricks, learn what options are and are not available in the HCH and Prius II, learn what the various levels of emissions actually mean, and most off, pull back on the attitude as you are battling with those that do in fact achieve far higher FE and have cleaner emissions in many cases.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 107
From: West Texas
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Originally Posted by lessevildave
Hauteur? Well, sorry to hear that you consider it 'arrogance' for me to find that hybrids aren't necessarily the end-all/be-all of fuel economy, environmentalism, etc.
Compare:
Originally Posted by lessevildave
Did I mention the snooty little turds at the first Honda dealership wouldn't even let me test drive a hybrid (before they lied about the Insight)? The ones I bought the HX from were surprised I had a 900+ credit rating when they did the loan, and I could have literally driven any car off their lot that I wanted, but they wouldn't even try to sell the hybrid when they walked up and I was sitting in it. Too good for the likes of me, I suppose. It was just the light blue color and had the manual transmission I wanted, too... too bad.
Originally Posted by lessevildave
In my particular case, hybrids don't make any sense at all....
I agree with everyone else here - the HX is a great car. Not comparable, however, to the Civic Hybrid. Not in ride, quiteness, amenities, etc....
That doesn't mean it's not a great car for you, or anyone else that it fits a need. BUT, neither does it mean the Hybrid is not the right fit for people who would like more.
Relax! We're all trying for a similar goal - better FE. Many of us balance the better FE to the other things we want, e.g., comfort, room, etc....
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32
From: Chicago/Wrigleyview
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Dave, are you just upset they didn't let you take that test drive and you're venting your feelings here? Didn't you just buy a brand new Civic from them less than a month ago? Considering you'd take a huge depriciation loss, it's doubtful you looked like a serious buyer of the same vehicle less than a month later. If you attitude at the dealership was like your attitude here, they probably didn't want to waste their time with someone who just wanted to play with the car. They are there to actually SELL cars, after all, not have new buyers take joyrides on the cars they didn't buy.
Using the lowest reported mileage figures reported on hybrid databases here vs. your numbers is not a representative comparison. You bring up the battery issue many times - where have you seen actual evidence of anyone's battery being replaced due to wear or mileage? Is this speculation on YOUR and many others uninformed? Toyota has publicly stated all battery replacements have been for damage or early defect, they have yet to replace a worn out battery, even in 150,000+ vehicles. I don't know about Honda, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have the same experience. The battery in the car is NOT the one in my laptop computer. When my laptop is dependent on the battery it will sacrifice it for longer performance. How can you draw conclusions with no evidence? Do you have credible reports of battery failures? If so, please let us know - hybrid owners would be very eager to read these reports!
Using the lowest reported mileage figures reported on hybrid databases here vs. your numbers is not a representative comparison. You bring up the battery issue many times - where have you seen actual evidence of anyone's battery being replaced due to wear or mileage? Is this speculation on YOUR and many others uninformed? Toyota has publicly stated all battery replacements have been for damage or early defect, they have yet to replace a worn out battery, even in 150,000+ vehicles. I don't know about Honda, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have the same experience. The battery in the car is NOT the one in my laptop computer. When my laptop is dependent on the battery it will sacrifice it for longer performance. How can you draw conclusions with no evidence? Do you have credible reports of battery failures? If so, please let us know - hybrid owners would be very eager to read these reports!
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 387
From: League City, Texas
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Originally Posted by lessevildave
Yes, and 8/100,000 for the Prius. And at eight years and a day or 80,001/100,001 miles, you're on your own.
Now the interesting questions to ask yourself is:
How much will a hybrid battery cost, and how long will it last?
These are very critical questions when considering the value of that extra 7MPG. It's the killer for totally electric vehicles. True, you can drive it for $0.02 a mile charging off the grid, but only BEFORE you consider how often you replace the batteries, which take deep drains, and wear out very rapidly on average.
Now the interesting questions to ask yourself is:
How much will a hybrid battery cost, and how long will it last?
These are very critical questions when considering the value of that extra 7MPG. It's the killer for totally electric vehicles. True, you can drive it for $0.02 a mile charging off the grid, but only BEFORE you consider how often you replace the batteries, which take deep drains, and wear out very rapidly on average.
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 387
From: League City, Texas
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
Originally Posted by lessevildave
Hauteur? Well, sorry to hear that you consider it 'arrogance' for me to find that hybrids aren't necessarily the end-all/be-all of fuel economy, environmentalism, etc.
Did I mention the snooty little turds at the first Honda dealership wouldn't even let me test drive a hybrid (before they lied about the Insight)? The ones I bought the HX from were surprised I had a 900+ credit rating when they did the loan, and I could have literally driven any car off their lot that I wanted, but they wouldn't even try to sell the hybrid when they walked up and I was sitting in it. Too good for the likes of me, I suppose. It was just the light blue color and had the manual transmission I wanted, too... too bad.
That's the ticket.
Did I mention the snooty little turds at the first Honda dealership wouldn't even let me test drive a hybrid (before they lied about the Insight)? The ones I bought the HX from were surprised I had a 900+ credit rating when they did the loan, and I could have literally driven any car off their lot that I wanted, but they wouldn't even try to sell the hybrid when they walked up and I was sitting in it. Too good for the likes of me, I suppose. It was just the light blue color and had the manual transmission I wanted, too... too bad.
That's the ticket.
Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
Re: HCH Owners, why not the Insight?
I drive an HCH CVT. I needed 4 doors and a back seat. Most of all though, the Insight is just plain ugly! I couldn't bring myself to consider it. (Sorry Insight owners. You can always claim "beauty is as beauty does")
I must admit, I'm starting to catch the compulsive petromania associated with increasing my MPG. That does make the look of the Insight more attractive.
Grandpa
I must admit, I'm starting to catch the compulsive petromania associated with increasing my MPG. That does make the look of the Insight more attractive.
Grandpa
