Wayne, I have not called anyone a "fibber" at all. What I did do, and I prefaced this in my statement, is say "show me."
And I am not challenging the 65 MPG, I'm challenging the 15.2 gallon tank capacity. I know for a FACT people can get 65+ MPG in the HCH - I have done that myself for LONG stretches, but I DO NOT KNOW for a fact that the tank is 15.2 gallons. THAT is what I want to see proof of.

And I certainly do not doubt you in any way - I consider you an authority on all these matters, and I will admit that it bothers me a smidge that you don't agree that topping off is bad, when the evidence shows it to be bad. But that one simple disagreement between the two of us does not take away at all from the respect I have for you and your views and your hypermiling skills and your "clean car" knowledge. I will never attack or insult you at all, in any way. This is all just in the "Spirit of Debate" which makes us all better people !!

I know NOW about PZEVs and ULEVs and all that important stuff, but unfortunately for me, I did not know that at the outset when I bought my HCH. That's just ANOTHER REASON why I will NEVER do ANYTHING that is anti-environment if it can be avoided. Like topping off, which CAN be avoided and is unnecessary.

I am a recycle ****, both at home and work. My blue city recycle bin fills up almost every week, but my green city "trash" bin only gets put out on the curb about once every 6 weeks. At work, I check the trash in the lunchroom every day to pull discarded cans and bottles and TV dinner plates out and put them into the recycle bins. I have an energy-efficient home and spent an extra $5000 when I had it built to make sure it had all Energy Star appliances, max insulation, Low-E windows, solar attic fan, tinted windows and sunscreens, etc. My utility bill has averaged 57 dollars per month for the last year, and that's in PHOENIX where we hit 110 several times every summer !!

So my conscience is clear on my environmental record. I strive to learn more and get better at my "green" responsibility.

But all this post has been about is wondering why on earth a 13.2 rated tank can hold 15.2 gallons - that's my whole thing - why is that true, and IS it true?

 

Hi Lars-ss:

___If you don’t believe him, what are you calling him? A saint? You are calling him a liar using the term (fibber?) and I wish you would not have. Now you want a pic of the gas pump after a fill? Here is the one gas pump pic I have ever taken from a hypermiler before a record setting attempt. Do we really need to take pics of the gas pumps now? I uploaded this one especially for you …



___Do you know why a 10.6 cap Honda Insight will hold almost 14 gallons of fuel? Who cares, IT DOES! According to you, only the HCH has a tank capacity that matches Honda’s listed Cap? There is no black or white here. Since you did not look up any of the real world tank caps of all of those automobiles listed above and as a heads up before you post anymore incorrect information, only the Ranger have I ever run out and coasted into the gas station. It has the closest tank capacity of any that I have driven in fact.

Manufacturer stated tank capacities:

03 Acura MDX: 19.2 gallons
03 Ford Ranger: 16.5 gallons
05 Honda Accord PZEV: 17.1 gallons
04 Honda Civic Hybrid - ULEV: 13.2 gallons
00 Honda Insight: 10.6 gallons
03 Toyota Corolla: 13.2 gallons

Actual max fuel tank capacity per my actuals and the one HCH owner:

03 Acura MDX: 22.92 gallons
03 Ford Ranger: 16.649 gallons
05 Honda Accord PZEV: 18.972 gallons
04 Honda Civic Hybrid - ULEV: 15.2 gallons
00 Honda Insight: 13.895 gallons
03 Toyota Corolla: 14.957 gallons___There are reasons for not topping off but bad for the CAT is not one of them. Spilling gas on the ground is not one of them since I do not practice that. Do you know of a hypermiler that does? The only reason is a possible charcoal canister failure. With today’s designs, that is unlikely as well. The EPA states it is just as bad for a 1983 Buick Skylark as it is for the latest 2005 Honda PZEV’s. Does the EPA know the differences between the 2? Do you?___Since I have never done any harm relating to top offs after 20 years of driving and I have never spilled fuel on the ground when filling my automobiles (I have when filling gas cans for the mowers unfortunately ) What needs to be avoided? Those extra 7 trips to the gas station is what should be avoided at all costs. What possible good can come from 7 extra trips to the gas station? It is an absolute waste of fuel, absolute waste in terms of extra emissions, and it’s an absolute waste of your time.___Good for you. And you can add to your current good practices by taking one less extra drive into the station every few weeks and run her close to 0 DTE before fillups.___Because Honda tank caps seem to be conservative is why.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Well, like I said before, the real purpose my posting here is to try and understand WHY on Earth a 13.2 gallon tank is "really" a 15.2 gallon tank in disguise. I still don't know why, and I still think it is ridiculous if true and it apparently IS true. Thanks for confirming that it is that large - I'm convinced Wayne.

And Wayne, I posted a perfectly logical reason why the "extra 7 trips" to the gas station in my personal case are not a waste of anything; time, money, etc. It's not an "extra trip" to the gas station - it's merely a normal trip to Sam's Club with a side stop at the gas pumps. I'm not going to repeat the rest of that stuff here - I'm 100% confident that I proved my point perfectly on that the first time around.

And as long as "topping off" is an EPA no-no, I'm not going to do it, and I'm going to advise everyone else I know not to do it. If you feel comfortable doing it, then I'm glad for you, although I can still disagree with it, right?

So, now back to the one remaining unanswered question: - does anyone know why Honda does not take advantage of the larger tank capacity to promote an even "farther cruising range" for their hybrids? That would seem to be good marketing, would it not?

 

Hi Lars-ss:
___You are welcome.

___It is a waste of time to say the least

___Your EPA discussion vs. my experience I guess. Kind of like the EPA estimates and what we achieve in the real world? Who do you believe ___A few years ago, I believe both GM and Ford got into a little trouble when the extra fuel tanks added as options to a few specific Truck missed their stated fuel capacity? A class-action lawsuit was filed and those in the class action were awarded something like $500 rebate checks for their next Ford/GM purchase. I cannot find a single link to the story but it was big news when it was first posted. Just one of a hundred reasons why possibly?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

So maybe we can file a class action against Honda and say they are causing us "extra trips to the gas station" because of understating their tank capacity....

I'll call my lawyer now !!!

P.S. Wayne, I'm sure millions of people top off, so you are not alone. But millions of people do many things which are not in the best interest of all of us as a whole, and in my opinion, topping off is a no-no....Just as I "promote" things I think are good just like owning a Hybrid car, I also "discourage" things which I think are bad. We all do that, don't we?

 

I have always wrote down miles, amount of gallons, etc in a log book on my vehicles. These days with the price of gas, I suspect that some gas stations may OR could tamper with the accuracy of their pumps. I have reported one near me as I have had several instances where I calculated much lower mileage on a tank when stopping at this station. This was not on my HCH, but another vehicle. I doubt the big chains would do this, but the smaller local independent quick stop type food/gas/lotery stores make me wonder. I have a CRV that avgs around 24mpg, but I went into this one station and filled up..only got 21 mpg. Now awaiting a response from state inspection division.

 

Ok I didn't do it! I chickened out with 2 bars left and would have been close to 40 miles before the next gas station. 668.6 and put in 11.390 gal. had about 1.8 gal left. As usual enough gas to go all the way home. Oh well better luck on another tank.
The new tank I'm not going to get the best milage as it's now 97f and the A/C runs GREAT!! Kevin

 

I am running this tank at 59.0 mpg and might just be able to make 700 if it doesn't rain too hard in the NJ area early this week. This tank is running about 5 percent better than my previous best (56.7 mpg). I tweeked the tire pressure just a bit, and it has made a big difference.

 

Kevin, you made it to 668miles and still had almost 2 gallons left to play with and Charlie is almost at that 700 goal.

You guys should give yourself more credit as your efforts are nothing less than fantastic.

 

The gauge on my dash showed 62.4 mpg real milage was 58.7mpg.