As others have stated, if you are going to compare the HCH to a regular Civic... then at least price it out so it's a more apples to apples match. The HCH comes closer to EX in features. So the price difference is much smaller than a lot of people think. To compare a car that has no alloy or AC to a car that does seems to be an unfair comparision.

 

When I compared them last, the hybrid also has about 4 options the EX does not. I can't do them all from memory, but I thought a spoiler and auto-climate control were two of them. So the extra cost of the hybrid is not all due to the hybrid itself. You do get more options for that extra money.

 

I agree... to make a apples to apple comparison you have to add these extra in as well.

 

I noticed the inconsistent calculations too. I think they come from rounding, for example he wrote 90K instead of 88.5K or something.

As for the price difference between EX and hybrid, the MSRP difference is $3690 before the tax credit. So it's about $1600 after the credit.

 

Ok then, I wasn't including the tax credit. Now it seems more reasonable if the difference is only $3690. That's a friggin' no brainer if you ask me. Costs the same after 90k plus uses less gas. There's no better argument than that right there.

 

Caution - long post ahead. Proceed with No-Doze

Thanks Livvie, Tim, Elan, and Zimbop!

I compared the Civic EX with NAVI to the Civic Hybrid with NAVI. I did the comparison in January 2006 (note: BEFORE the recent $300 Hybrid price increase!). I now have both sets of figures, before AND after the $300 increase, all below.

I think I DID consider most of the issues to make the comparison as close to apples-to-apples as I could get. For those wanting more particulars, read on.

I took into consideration the estimated $2100 tax credit, but not the earnings the extra $2100 could earn in a year, since you won't GET the tax credit until NEXT year. I ignored this small interest amount for simplicity.

I considered buying each at the best discounts I know of (that certain dealership in Bartlesville, OK!). $416 over invoice for the EX, $516 over invoice for the Hybrid. IF you are NOT buying the NAVI at such discount (and I know many are not or cannot), then the miles-to-breakeven are greater. Especially considering you are MUCH more likely to get a discount on the EX than on the Hybrid. But I didn't run any comparisons like that.

I considered the greater sales tax (TX for me) for the Hybrid.

I considered financing the whole amount at 5.75% over 60 months, with NO trade-in or cash down. This naturally increases the miles-to-breakeven for the higher-priced hybrid as well.

I GUESSED at the CITY and HIGHWAY MPG. I presumed 29/37 for the EX, and 43/47 for the Hybrid. YMMV

The above factors are part of my comparison.

The below factors are NOT part of my comparison, for simplicity's sake.

I GUESSED that insurance costs for either would be the same.

I GUESSED that maintenance/repairs would be the same. I did not factor-in a replacement hybrid-battery at 100K or so, since I believe most HCH-I owners above 100K are still on their original battery. Plus we don't have really good $$$ figures for what one would cost at 100K or so (with any luck, less than now).

I GUESSED that the future trade-in values would be similar enough. Currently, used Hybrids are hot commodities. That could change. People that are stating as fact that the used Hybrid will be worth LESS than if it were not a hybrid - these folks are not using current truths and are merely guessing at the future. I ignored it altogether.

I know that buying an extended warranty (HondaCare) costs about $50 more for the Hybrid. I did not factor an extended warranty in.


All-in-all, I figured the key factor was the NET higher total cost to simply buy the Hybrid vs. the Civic EX - and how long before the fuel savings match that difference.
Before the $300 price increase, the NET higher cost was $1140.00.
My OLD estimated actual miles-to-breakeven @ $3 gallon:
75,409 Highway
33,847 City

My OLD estimated actual miles-to-breakeven @ $4 gallon:
56,556 Highway
25,385 City

After the $300 price increase, the NET higher cost is now $1499.40.
My NEW estimated actual miles-to-breakeven @ $3 gallon:
99,183 Highway
44,518 City

My NEW estimated actual miles-to-breakeven @ $4 gallon:
74,387 Highway
33,388 City

Now if you want the sunroof, folding rear seat (tough!), 4-wheel disc brakes (tough!) and nice alloy wheels of the Civic EX, you're mostly out of luck. You could replace the pie-tin wheels of the Hybrid easily enough, and you could get an aftermarket sunroof added on, but that's about it. And of course, these extras would add to the miles-to-breakeven.

I hope I covered about everything that I had asked you guys/gals to take for granted in my earlier post. If not, post or PM away. I'll be glad/eager to reconsider and adjust my calculations if warranted. I've been preaching the gospel about this (counter-balancing the folks who say it makes no financial sense to buy a hybrid). In fact, I estimate it does pay off for many folks, and is better for us all to boot (less gas used, pollution, foreign oil, etc). I wanted to prove to myself that getting a hybrid wasn't a BAD financial idea. And it's not, if you hang onto it for 90K miles (for mostly Highway driving) or 40-45K (for mostly City driving). If you trade cars every 12-15K, you know already (I hope) that you're typically losing money hand-over-fist. So it matters little what the numbers show.

 

Thank you Gumby (Steve)!

For the sake of completeness, I think it would be interesting to hear from HCH owners about the intangible benefits of the hybrid over say an EX. I don't think it's all about the bottome line. These are mine - add to it if you like!

- The hybrid is just an interesting car to own. The technology is fascinating and different. The feedback you get from the car is unlike most vehicles. I find the topic occupies my mind, and gave me a lot more to think about than just owning a car.
- It's an interesting conversation piece. An EX will be fun to talk about for say a minute or two. I've had long conversations with folks about the hybrid. A lot of folks are very curious and will ask lots of questions.
- There's a "Zen" aspect if you will. I'm a much more patient driver. Once I got over my preoccupation with the displays, I believe I'm much safer too. I drive much closer to or at the speed limits. My commutes are simply more pleasant and enjoyable.
- There is a larger cause associated with the car (pick one: environment, reduce dependence on foreign oil, emmisions, etc.).
- There's more of a 'community' or 'club' feel when you own one. You're a small minority that took a chance on a newer technology.
- You get to talk about interesting topics on GH.

 

there are other ancillary costs of ownership as well that add up over time:
maintenance, brake pad/rotor replacements, oil changes, tires. the hybrid may offer benefits in each of these areas over its non-hybrid counterpart. for example, the hch will probably require 1 perhaps two less brake/rotor replacements over its lifetime because of regenerative braking. the savings there might be around $600 total. the time between oil changes on the hch will probably be less because the engine in general works less since the electric motor assists. don't know what the avg. time between oil changes will be for either the hch or regular civic though... the tires on the hch are different, higher rolling resistance. many hch owners inflate them to above their factory defaults. both factors may increase lifetime of tires.

also, i think you should use the real world epa database on real world mpg for both cars. you can find it at: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

there, the real world database has the regular automatic civic at 31.7mpg and the civic hybrid at 45.2mpg.

finally, i would consider that over a 5 year period of ownership, gas is going to reach beyond $4 a gallon. probably $5 and perhaps higher.

just my 5 cents.

 

While some of these things may be true, I think it is more likely to even out or cost more in the end. I have definitely noticed a "Hybrid Premium" cost on things at the shop. Even things that shouldn't be any different for the hybrid than the regular civic, they want to charge more for it because it's a special car. The 0x-20 oil is an odd item so they charge $40 instead of $25 for an oil change, the air filter was outrageously expensive, and so on. I really don't think maintenance on the hybrid will cost less than a regular civic, probably more I would suspect. Certainly if you include the cost of a battery replacement.

 

anyone else seeing that hybrid maintenance is costing more?