Hello folks,

I havent posted in a while and hope all is well with your HAH. Mine is still fine as can be .

I see many posts where 'other' hybrid batteries are failing and costing an arm and a leg to replace with or without warranty and have ALWAYS wondered about the HAH being able to start with the 12v battery on its own. When I first got the car, it seems there IS a 12v starter under the hood, keyword being 'seems'. ALSO the HAH has a huge 12v battery which would easily crank one of these engines IF in fact it did have a 12v starter.

I realize that of course the IMA assist and regen etc would no longer function, yet the ECO mode should still be active, just without assist IF the HAH could start on the 12v battery.

Does anyone know FOR SURE if this car can/should be able to start on its own? I have been meaning to ask this from day one many yrs ago, just never got around to it.

Thanks !

Tony

 

The idea around this forum is that the car needs the IMA batteries in order to function properly. This is largely due to the fact that this car does not have an alternator. All electricity is generated by the IMA motor and stored in the IMA batteries. And the IMA batteries power the Variable Cylinder Management (the part of the engine that allows the car to run in 3 cylinders). Eco isn't all inclusive to being in 3-cyl mode either. Depending on what article you read, Eco comes on when the car gets above 25 MPG and/or when the car is running on 3 cylinders. So far, there hasn't been any real definitive answer on this. However, it's a good bet that if Eco is displayed, the car is more than likely BOTH getting >25 MPG and POSSIBLY even running in 3-cyl mode.

So, what recharges the energy in the 12V battery? I'm not really sure if it comes directly from the IMA motor or from the IMA batteries. Of course, ultimately it does come from the IMA motor, even if it has to pass through the IMA batteries, and definitely runs through a voltage regulator. Will the car run without the IMA batteries but WITH the IMA motor? Maybe. No one really knows. Anyone want to unplug their IMA batteries and find out for us? The contention on the HCH forums is this car should be able to run without the IMA batteries, but I haven't heard of anyone having done it yet.

Yes, there is a conventional starter under the hood. If the IMA batteries have run down, you can still start the car with the 12V battery powering the conventional starter. However, as I've found out, if your 12V battery is dead, you cannot start the car! Even with a full charge on the IMA batteries. Why? The best I can tell is the 12V battery powers up relays that must be energized in order to switch on the ECU and IMA components. So, be careful not to run down your 12V battery! Or you'll have to jumpstart the car.

 

Thanks Keith ! Its weird that the answer is unknown to me/us. I was simply thinking if the trunk batteries die out one day, I may just leave it run as a non-hybrid model however, you do bring up the point that there isnt an alternator as we know it.

I wish I had the ahem, courage, to pull the interlock to the trunk cells and see what happens. I know one of my cars (past prius) or this hah have a interlock device that removes the pack from service.

It would sure be a great built in safety if the HAH, especially the 05, as in mine and yours were capable of running on its own with out the hybrid circuitry.

Guess I will keep on wondering or consider selling the car one day because of this unkown.

later
Tony

 

No prob Tony. Glad you could understand my rambling. I was pretty tired last night when I hacked out that message.

The IMA components should last at least 10 years / 150,000 miles. We'll see, I suppose. There's already someone on this forum at 100K without any IMA problems. And quite a few are nearing the 80K mark. I'm at 54K and don't expect any problems. At least, not until sometime way after 150K. Hopeful thinking, of course.

I don't know what the current cost for a battery pack is. I think I heard it was something like $1,500 for the batteries, if nothing else is wrong with the IMA parts. But, you'll have to verify that price, since I only read it in a thread somewhere.

All in all, after surpassing 100K miles, I won't be disappointed if I have to pay $1,500 for my car to run like new again. I knew what I was getting myself into when I bought the car. So it'll come as no surprise when I'm due for new batteries.

 

Keith, the message I saw was something like 2200$ for a civic hybrid that just turned 83kish miles. The part that made me post was not only the cost because as you, I knew what I was buying into, the part that got me was that the new pack was only warranted 12months/12k miles! THAT ISNT RIGHT imo.

Maybe someday we will know the answer to the questions of cost and possibility of the hah running on the 12v system alone.

Tony

 

I believe the 12mo/12K miles is just a standard warranty they place on all their repairs. Yeah, I agree it would be nice if replaced hybrid parts would get the full 8yr/80K warranty. Afterall, they "claim" it'll last a lot longer than that. So why don't they put their money where their mouths are?

$2,200 is still pretty steep. But a far cry from what, $4K when it first came out?

So far, I haven't heard of a single battery pack replacement on the HAH. Someone on this forum said we don't tax our batteries as heavily as the HCH because we're not using ASSIST as much as the Civics are. So longevity should be longer. Like I said earlier, there's someone else on this forum with a HAH that has 100K (I don't remember who it is, but I think it was a new guy) and as far as I know still driving on the original batteries. So, hope that's a good sign for the rest of us!

 

My 05 has over 105k on it and haven't had any IMA problems. I have the lights set to turn off automatically and one time I accidentally left the key in the ignition switch while I washed it. When done the car wouldn't turn over without being jumped. It didn't take much to jump it though, fortunately. I had another small problem once when I tried to start the car. I tried to turn it over and since the engine is so quiet and didn't hear it running I thought it wasn't running and tried turning it over again and it wouldn't start without a jump. Is there something wrong or this natural?

 

lebloom,

When I got the 05 HAH several yrs ago, I was surprised mine didnt have the ability for the light to go out automatically. How do you do this? I been trough the manual several times (yrs ago) and gave up. Perhaps you have the NAV system on yours which I dont have.


Another question now about your post.... Am I clear on this that your trunk batteries were most likely charged but your 12v battery was depleted and thats why the car wouldnt start?

I dont expect any troubles, yet, I would love to know if the car is thought out well enough to have it start off the 12v battery with its own conventional starter should the ima batteries die or be removed completely making this a standard accord with the addition of the ability to run on 3cyls. The only thing that would be missing is the IMA boost .

Seems no one knows. Even the mechanics at the dealer dont know and wont bother looking it up.

Guess we will find out one day.

 

TonyK.

I bought my Accord used about 8 months ago. In the manual it gives out the instructions to make your lights auto off. Turn the engine over and turn the lights on fully. Then shut the engine off, pull the key from the ignition and get out leaving the lights on. About 10 seconds the lights will automatically turn off. You'll be set. No I don't have the navigation system. I wish I did in a way. I can't understand why they didn't make all of these HAH fully equiped for the money they charged.

I don't exactly know how my battery was depleted that day it had to be jumped. The batteries were charged and then I accidentally left my key in the ignition for a period while I cleaned and waxed the car. I go to start it and the battery symble showed depleted. It didn't take much to jump it.

I have read that if the hybrid batteries were to be totally depleted this car probably wouldn't run correct since it doesn't have a alternator.

I have talked to only a couple of Honda mechanics and at least one really liked this car a great deal. I didn't talk too long but I'd like to know more.

 

THANKS lebloom,

The headlights do in fact shut off when left on, I just was never going to chance it ever.

I got out of the car while leaving the lites on, locked the door remotely and the lites blinked a sec and then went out about 10 seconds later. Kinda cool!

You are right about the alternator not being on the car YET possibly the same system that charges the IMA batteries may have the ability to charge at the 12v level if there are some form of reulators etc etc.

I just want to know my options so to speak before the time comes to shell out the $$s for a new IMA battery pack or simply drive the car as a conventional accord IF thats even possible. That is my only reason for wanting to know.

Thanks again

Tony