Help understanding the great mileage debate
#11
02-04-2007, 08:24 PM
Re: Help understanding the great mileage debate
Dougie,
With the great resale, I'd be MORE inclined to get a NEW Hybrid. You could sell it in a few years withoutout much out-of-pocket.
Now, about the MPG you should expect. You are right -figures are all over the board. This is no different from MANY other cars, though. Some people can drive a Corvette and get 29 MPG, others struggle to get 15 MPG. Some of the difference has to do with length of trip, climate, terrain, driving style, winter-blend (carppy) gas or not, etc.
You say you are a conservative driver. Most people "think" they are. I did. I'm *more" conservative now, and my MPG has improved too.
A good comparison might help us help you in your quest for "MPG you should expect." What do you drive now, and what MPG do you get? This helps us know whether you come close to the EPA numbers now - in the car you're in. If not, you certainly won't in the Civic Hybrid. If so, then maybe you could. A nice thing about the Hybrid is that Instantaneous MPG Gauge being so prominent. It can help teach us how to drive for better MPG. So can this forum!
Getting EPA in the Civic Hybrid will be difficult in your short commute anyways, I suspect. I'd guess the average conservative driver on such a short drive will get 40-43 MPG. On a regular Civic, I'd guess 29-30 MPG. The break-even time might surprise you. Run the numbers, considering the cost of gas is likely headed up over time.
And over time, you could improve (like many of us have) by becoming slightly more conservative. But being like Kenny - that would be a lot to expect!
With the great resale, I'd be MORE inclined to get a NEW Hybrid. You could sell it in a few years withoutout much out-of-pocket.
Now, about the MPG you should expect. You are right -figures are all over the board. This is no different from MANY other cars, though. Some people can drive a Corvette and get 29 MPG, others struggle to get 15 MPG. Some of the difference has to do with length of trip, climate, terrain, driving style, winter-blend (carppy) gas or not, etc.
You say you are a conservative driver. Most people "think" they are. I did. I'm *more" conservative now, and my MPG has improved too.
A good comparison might help us help you in your quest for "MPG you should expect." What do you drive now, and what MPG do you get? This helps us know whether you come close to the EPA numbers now - in the car you're in. If not, you certainly won't in the Civic Hybrid. If so, then maybe you could. A nice thing about the Hybrid is that Instantaneous MPG Gauge being so prominent. It can help teach us how to drive for better MPG. So can this forum!
Getting EPA in the Civic Hybrid will be difficult in your short commute anyways, I suspect. I'd guess the average conservative driver on such a short drive will get 40-43 MPG. On a regular Civic, I'd guess 29-30 MPG. The break-even time might surprise you. Run the numbers, considering the cost of gas is likely headed up over time.
And over time, you could improve (like many of us have) by becoming slightly more conservative. But being like Kenny - that would be a lot to expect!
#12
02-07-2007, 06:27 AM
Re: Help understanding the great mileage debate
My personal opinion for daily commuters will be look at your total costs and decide if the economics are worth it.
For a low mileage driver, I believe that the model is difficult to justify itself from economics alone - unless you keep a car for a very long period (I don't - my last 3 cars I've had for 14 months, 8 months and then 4 months, up to that I was averaging about 18 months between cars).
If you look at a model where you use 2 gallons/day with a non-hybrid, so even at 10 mpg (Full Size 4x4 Pickup/SUV) mileage, that would mean you are travelling about 20 miles day and spending about $5/day ($2.50/gallon). Even at $4.00/gallon, you are looking at $8/day or $40/week. Annualized, you are looking at just $2080/year in fuel costs - at $4/gallon. At $2.50/gallon, you are only at $1300/year.
So with a hybrid, if you get 40 mpg (a 4 fold improvement over 10 mpg) with the same commute - that would reduce your gas consumption to 0.5 gallons/day. This would yield an annual fuel cost of $325 and $520, at $2.50/gallon and $4.00/gallon respectively. This is a savings of $975 to $1560.
So if you are paying a $3000 premium for a hybrid, it would take 2 to 3 years just to break even from a cash flow situation. Now there are tax incentives which can reduce that time horizon, but then there is also the unknown cost of battery replacement/maintaince over time.
The ultimate decision is do you want to drive it or do you think you will enjoy driving it? I had one where I put 16K miles on it in about 4 months. I enjoyed playing the mileage game, but after 4 months, I got bored of it. Then my commute switched so I was down to under 12 miles/day (6 miles each way to work). Not much of an opportunity to play the mileage game for such short drives.
So I traded mine in - I got just under $100 what I paid for it, after tax credits - and went back to a full size crew cab pick up truck. I use about 1 gallon/day. Even if my company wasn't paying for gas, it amounts to under $3/day. Plus my insurance dropped by almost 20%, it's much roomier and comfortable and I don't have to borrow my friend's pick up to haul stuff (which I do about once or twice a month). Another bonus is that no one tries to cut me off or turn in front of me when I approach intersections as well as tailgates me - even if they do, I don't even notice them.
I wish I had the discipline like many people here have to keep and drive an hybrid, but unfortunately I dont. Now I am sure that my truck depreciated by $10K the moment I drove it off the lot, but I enjoy it, for now......
For a low mileage driver, I believe that the model is difficult to justify itself from economics alone - unless you keep a car for a very long period (I don't - my last 3 cars I've had for 14 months, 8 months and then 4 months, up to that I was averaging about 18 months between cars).
If you look at a model where you use 2 gallons/day with a non-hybrid, so even at 10 mpg (Full Size 4x4 Pickup/SUV) mileage, that would mean you are travelling about 20 miles day and spending about $5/day ($2.50/gallon). Even at $4.00/gallon, you are looking at $8/day or $40/week. Annualized, you are looking at just $2080/year in fuel costs - at $4/gallon. At $2.50/gallon, you are only at $1300/year.
So with a hybrid, if you get 40 mpg (a 4 fold improvement over 10 mpg) with the same commute - that would reduce your gas consumption to 0.5 gallons/day. This would yield an annual fuel cost of $325 and $520, at $2.50/gallon and $4.00/gallon respectively. This is a savings of $975 to $1560.
So if you are paying a $3000 premium for a hybrid, it would take 2 to 3 years just to break even from a cash flow situation. Now there are tax incentives which can reduce that time horizon, but then there is also the unknown cost of battery replacement/maintaince over time.
The ultimate decision is do you want to drive it or do you think you will enjoy driving it? I had one where I put 16K miles on it in about 4 months. I enjoyed playing the mileage game, but after 4 months, I got bored of it. Then my commute switched so I was down to under 12 miles/day (6 miles each way to work). Not much of an opportunity to play the mileage game for such short drives.
So I traded mine in - I got just under $100 what I paid for it, after tax credits - and went back to a full size crew cab pick up truck. I use about 1 gallon/day. Even if my company wasn't paying for gas, it amounts to under $3/day. Plus my insurance dropped by almost 20%, it's much roomier and comfortable and I don't have to borrow my friend's pick up to haul stuff (which I do about once or twice a month). Another bonus is that no one tries to cut me off or turn in front of me when I approach intersections as well as tailgates me - even if they do, I don't even notice them.
I wish I had the discipline like many people here have to keep and drive an hybrid, but unfortunately I dont. Now I am sure that my truck depreciated by $10K the moment I drove it off the lot, but I enjoy it, for now......
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