Block Heater results?
#11
11-09-2006, 11:01 PM
Re: Block Heater results?
I just had my Engine Block Heater installed today so I won't be able to report on the impact for a few days (and unfortunately the temps are unseasonably warm so that doesn't help matters). I did notice that it draws about 420 Watts (or 0.42 kW) so in 1 hr this will be 0.42 kW*hr and at a guess of $0.10-$0.15/kW*hr this would cost between $0.042 and $0.063 per hour to run the heater or a 3-hr rate between $0.126 and $0.189. I will post the increase in FE after I experiment for a few days.
Quickly though - the PDF instructions that are available show many steps that are unnecessary. They want you to remove the windshield cowling at the back of the engine bay, remove the engine cover, remove the battery, route the cable up near the oil dipstick, route it along the rear of the engine, route it around/behind/under the battery tray area, continue down into the front grille area clipping into the car frame at places, and finally out the front.
I had a friend perform this at a shop with a car lift so that made many steps not needed and other steps quite easy. Here are some photos of the process. We decided to route the cable where it was easy to zip-tie like the A/C lines, across the top of the radiator shrouds then down and into the front grille. Start to finish time was about 1 hr and most of that time was the removal/replacement of the undertray clips and waiting for the coolant to drain from the radiator drain plug.
Undertray prior to removal.
Engine after removing undertray.
Rear of engine after removing undertray. This was the first place we thought to reach to gain access to the drain plug but it was too near the exhaust (you have to reach straight up from where the exhaust exits) and you could not see the drain plug.
If you remove the passenger wheel then you can look through the steering bits and spot the drain plug. This was reached by a ratchet with swivel head. Here you can see the stock engine drain plug (19 mm) which is to the left of the black plug in the center of the photo.
After draining the coolant from the radiator's drain plug there was still a fair amount when removing the engine block drain plug. I was surprised to see that the coolant was blue.
Due to the location of the drain plug when you remove the stock plug it drains all over the steering components and suspension bits and unless you have a catch basic the size of a golf umbrella then you will get a shower so be ready for it.
Block heater plug installed into the drain plug hole. Remember to dodge the remaining antifreeze dripping off the chassis.
Here you can see the brass block heater plug (24 mm) connected to the orange plug for the heat cable.
We chose to route the cabling along the A/C lines rather than how the instructions show which is across the rear of the engine. Remember that the exhaust come out the back of the engine and we thought it would be smarter to not route this over the exhaust area and down behind the battery and battery tray. Indeed this was much easier and I feel a safer alternative.
We removed the front plastic lip to gain easier access to route the cabling directly below it and on top of the radiator fan shrouds. I have a Full Nose Mask on the car so I had to remove the two snaps on either side and then two plastic clips in the front middle so this is after the front lip was loose and moved slightly for the photo.
Further routing across top of radiator fans (under the front plastic lip) and then down the driver's side of the radiator and across the front of the radiator behind the front grill (this is due to the length of the cabling so we had to take up the spare length somewhere).
Finished results (protective cap removed for photo).
Quickly though - the PDF instructions that are available show many steps that are unnecessary. They want you to remove the windshield cowling at the back of the engine bay, remove the engine cover, remove the battery, route the cable up near the oil dipstick, route it along the rear of the engine, route it around/behind/under the battery tray area, continue down into the front grille area clipping into the car frame at places, and finally out the front.
I had a friend perform this at a shop with a car lift so that made many steps not needed and other steps quite easy. Here are some photos of the process. We decided to route the cable where it was easy to zip-tie like the A/C lines, across the top of the radiator shrouds then down and into the front grille. Start to finish time was about 1 hr and most of that time was the removal/replacement of the undertray clips and waiting for the coolant to drain from the radiator drain plug.
Undertray prior to removal.
Engine after removing undertray.
Rear of engine after removing undertray. This was the first place we thought to reach to gain access to the drain plug but it was too near the exhaust (you have to reach straight up from where the exhaust exits) and you could not see the drain plug.
If you remove the passenger wheel then you can look through the steering bits and spot the drain plug. This was reached by a ratchet with swivel head. Here you can see the stock engine drain plug (19 mm) which is to the left of the black plug in the center of the photo.
After draining the coolant from the radiator's drain plug there was still a fair amount when removing the engine block drain plug. I was surprised to see that the coolant was blue.
Due to the location of the drain plug when you remove the stock plug it drains all over the steering components and suspension bits and unless you have a catch basic the size of a golf umbrella then you will get a shower so be ready for it.
Block heater plug installed into the drain plug hole. Remember to dodge the remaining antifreeze dripping off the chassis.
Here you can see the brass block heater plug (24 mm) connected to the orange plug for the heat cable.
We chose to route the cabling along the A/C lines rather than how the instructions show which is across the rear of the engine. Remember that the exhaust come out the back of the engine and we thought it would be smarter to not route this over the exhaust area and down behind the battery and battery tray. Indeed this was much easier and I feel a safer alternative.
We removed the front plastic lip to gain easier access to route the cabling directly below it and on top of the radiator fan shrouds. I have a Full Nose Mask on the car so I had to remove the two snaps on either side and then two plastic clips in the front middle so this is after the front lip was loose and moved slightly for the photo.
Further routing across top of radiator fans (under the front plastic lip) and then down the driver's side of the radiator and across the front of the radiator behind the front grill (this is due to the length of the cabling so we had to take up the spare length somewhere).
Finished results (protective cap removed for photo).
Last edited by Flash; 11-09-2006 at 11:37 PM.
Re: Block Heater results?
! I may have tried the install myself had I seen it. Please let us know how the heater works.
#13
11-10-2006, 04:31 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
Thanks - the heater is on and warming as I type so I'll post later. The install is definitely possible by a Grassroots person. Most people will not have a lift so the biggest thing is taking off the engine cover to have easier access down the back of the motor to the drain plug though it will be more by feel if reached from the top.
I can guarantee that many steps are unnecessary (Step 1: Move wiper arms to vertical position; Step 2: Disconnect battery; Step 3: Allow engine, etc. to cool; Step 5: Remove cowl cover; Step 6: Remove cowl; Step 8: Mark the harness with marker; Step 13: Route the harness across the back of the motor and around/behind/under the battery and battery tray; Step 25: Reconnect the battery; Step 26: Enter the radio code; Step 27 Reset the clock; Step 28: Rev engine if IMA meter shows zero bars; Step 29: Enter the Honda multi-matic feedback signal; and Steps 30-33: Enable the driver's Auto window function).
Whew. Out of the 33 steps I skipped 16 of them. I can just see a line-item detail from the dealer to a customer showing "Allow engine and coolant to cool - 1.0 hrs - $65.00" and a customer not knowing that they were getting charged the shop rate just to have their car sit there for an hour or that dropping their car off the night before would skip this charge though they might include it anyway. Be on the watch if you have this done at a shop.
Also, does anyone know what the "Honda multi-matic feedback signal" is? Since we did not disconnect the battery we skipped all of those steps.
I can guarantee that many steps are unnecessary (Step 1: Move wiper arms to vertical position; Step 2: Disconnect battery; Step 3: Allow engine, etc. to cool; Step 5: Remove cowl cover; Step 6: Remove cowl; Step 8: Mark the harness with marker; Step 13: Route the harness across the back of the motor and around/behind/under the battery and battery tray; Step 25: Reconnect the battery; Step 26: Enter the radio code; Step 27 Reset the clock; Step 28: Rev engine if IMA meter shows zero bars; Step 29: Enter the Honda multi-matic feedback signal; and Steps 30-33: Enable the driver's Auto window function).
Whew. Out of the 33 steps I skipped 16 of them. I can just see a line-item detail from the dealer to a customer showing "Allow engine and coolant to cool - 1.0 hrs - $65.00" and a customer not knowing that they were getting charged the shop rate just to have their car sit there for an hour or that dropping their car off the night before would skip this charge though they might include it anyway. Be on the watch if you have this done at a shop.
Also, does anyone know what the "Honda multi-matic feedback signal" is? Since we did not disconnect the battery we skipped all of those steps.
#14
11-10-2006, 06:47 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
Nice pictures. And nice job!
Yes. The issue of "lengthy service checklists" has been a hotly debated topic in DIY forums for good reasons - as you have stated - People often find that some of those steps can be skipped. I am inclined to believe that too.
In fact, some technicians have admitted to me (in the recent past) that they do that, particularly if they've been servicing these vehicles for a long time.
But this is a public forum and in fairness I owe a disclaimer for those you may be inclined to believe the checklists are a rip-off job.
As it may be common knowledge, many of the better managed dealerships ensure that their technicians review the checklists every so often in order to minimize mis-haps that later on can cause customers to be un-happy. A fellow engineer who's also Regional Honda Manager once told me that the aircraft maintenance protocols are used as a primary model to ensure professional competence and safety of service.
To a typical customer this may appear like a terrible waste of time that is intentinally designed to hurt our wallets. However, I assure you that there are good reasons for them to be like that and however small, they are meant to reduce errors and oversights.
Some auto manufacturers (Honda included) have even disciplined dealerships/service departments for failing to carry out proper procedures that later were found to have caused failures (fires, shorts, spills, leaks and unusual mechanical wear). They (ultimately Honda) are liable if they do the service incorrectly in violation of the engineering service bulletins. As a consumer you cannot be faulted and you are in a position of advantage.
If someone else does the service (correctly or not) Honda's Warranty fullfilment process can always attempt to abdicate responsability for a failure based on the evidence they retrieve from their examinations of the vehicle. In these cases, the consumer often loses - it is just a matter of how much (consider time and personal energy as a loss) .
So, you do it right then you win.
You are not sure? Then do the right thing.
Cheers;
MSantos
Yes. The issue of "lengthy service checklists" has been a hotly debated topic in DIY forums for good reasons - as you have stated - People often find that some of those steps can be skipped. I am inclined to believe that too.
In fact, some technicians have admitted to me (in the recent past) that they do that, particularly if they've been servicing these vehicles for a long time.
But this is a public forum and in fairness I owe a disclaimer for those you may be inclined to believe the checklists are a rip-off job.
As it may be common knowledge, many of the better managed dealerships ensure that their technicians review the checklists every so often in order to minimize mis-haps that later on can cause customers to be un-happy. A fellow engineer who's also Regional Honda Manager once told me that the aircraft maintenance protocols are used as a primary model to ensure professional competence and safety of service.
To a typical customer this may appear like a terrible waste of time that is intentinally designed to hurt our wallets. However, I assure you that there are good reasons for them to be like that and however small, they are meant to reduce errors and oversights.
Some auto manufacturers (Honda included) have even disciplined dealerships/service departments for failing to carry out proper procedures that later were found to have caused failures (fires, shorts, spills, leaks and unusual mechanical wear). They (ultimately Honda) are liable if they do the service incorrectly in violation of the engineering service bulletins. As a consumer you cannot be faulted and you are in a position of advantage.
If someone else does the service (correctly or not) Honda's Warranty fullfilment process can always attempt to abdicate responsability for a failure based on the evidence they retrieve from their examinations of the vehicle. In these cases, the consumer often loses - it is just a matter of how much (consider time and personal energy as a loss) .
So, you do it right then you win.
You are not sure? Then do the right thing.
Cheers;
MSantos
#15
11-10-2006, 07:05 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
Oh, I almost forgot. Yet another safety item:
The primary reason why the Honda installation checklist recommends that wire be attached to the recommended tie points is because there have been instances where customers have driven off while the car was still plugged in. If we follow their directions, the cord + loom will not break or damage any other critical or weaker components. The cord will just break closest to the plug.
Since you have attached your cord to the AC piping I would also re-enforce the tie point closest to the bumper, so that if you ever drive off with the car plugged in the cord will break closest to the bumber and not damage your AC piping.
Cheers;
MSantos
The primary reason why the Honda installation checklist recommends that wire be attached to the recommended tie points is because there have been instances where customers have driven off while the car was still plugged in. If we follow their directions, the cord + loom will not break or damage any other critical or weaker components. The cord will just break closest to the plug.
Since you have attached your cord to the AC piping I would also re-enforce the tie point closest to the bumper, so that if you ever drive off with the car plugged in the cord will break closest to the bumber and not damage your AC piping.
Cheers;
MSantos
#17
11-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
MSantos - I don't disagree at all about your comments and anybody doing their own work should already be aware of such pitfalls or dangers. While many steps were skipped to save time (removing the engine cover and windshielf cowl) there were other steps that were skipped because they made no sense at all (a photo shows the battery removed but they never say to remove the battery - just the negative terminal cable). This was also a friend installing the harness and not a shop where I paid for Honda-warranty service and I didn't explain that earlier.
As far as the routing, MSantos, if you read the post then it explains that and that is why I took the time to write it <grrrrrr on you>. I noted, "... routing across the top of the radiator fans (under the front plastic lip) and then down the driver's side of the radiator and across the front of the radiator behind the front grill..." Therefore it is not ONLY zip-tied to the A/C lines and poking out the front as is -- it is run across the rad fan shrouds and zip-tied twice where the hood latch area is, down the side of the rad on the driver's side and zip-tied as it dives down and from here it continues where the original instructions mention. At the bottom of the grille on the driver's side it is zip-tied, it is then zip-tied in the middle of the grille, and finally zip-tied just before it emerges from the grille on the passenger side. The protective boot is also zip-tied on instead of just relying on the rubber boot to hold itself.
In fact, I plan on using a very low-tech design to remind me to unplug the car prior to driving off like a 20 oz cup turned upside down on the gearshift so I can't move the car until I read "This car is still plugged in" or something hard to miss. However, if I DO drive off with it still plugged in I hope it creates enough damage that will teach me a lesson so I won't do it again. I currently have it plugged into the outlet by our front porch and I have to literally play Jump Rope in order to get to the car so if I don't notice the car is still plugged in then there are larger issues for me to solve. =)
As far as the routing, MSantos, if you read the post then it explains that and that is why I took the time to write it <grrrrrr on you>. I noted, "... routing across the top of the radiator fans (under the front plastic lip) and then down the driver's side of the radiator and across the front of the radiator behind the front grill..." Therefore it is not ONLY zip-tied to the A/C lines and poking out the front as is -- it is run across the rad fan shrouds and zip-tied twice where the hood latch area is, down the side of the rad on the driver's side and zip-tied as it dives down and from here it continues where the original instructions mention. At the bottom of the grille on the driver's side it is zip-tied, it is then zip-tied in the middle of the grille, and finally zip-tied just before it emerges from the grille on the passenger side. The protective boot is also zip-tied on instead of just relying on the rubber boot to hold itself.
In fact, I plan on using a very low-tech design to remind me to unplug the car prior to driving off like a 20 oz cup turned upside down on the gearshift so I can't move the car until I read "This car is still plugged in" or something hard to miss. However, if I DO drive off with it still plugged in I hope it creates enough damage that will teach me a lesson so I won't do it again. I currently have it plugged into the outlet by our front porch and I have to literally play Jump Rope in order to get to the car so if I don't notice the car is still plugged in then there are larger issues for me to solve. =)
#18
11-10-2006, 11:31 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
Originally Posted by noflash
How does the plug normally sit in the grill?
#19
11-10-2006, 11:37 AM
Re: Block Heater results?
My result of the block heater was a noticeable improvement on the first day. This morning it was about 55 degrees so not cold by any means but the car was plugged in for about 3 hours and when I lifted the hood to make sure everything was ok I noticed some heat being emitted from the engine bay. Amazing! The block heater was definitely working. The engine was not hot mind you but I could notice the heat hitting my hands and my face when I lifted the hood.
On normal days the temp gauge will not get to normal until 5-7 miles down the Interstate. This morning it was up to temp by 1.5 miles down the road at 35 mph (non-Interstate). There was heat instantly when I started up the car (although on normal days there was heat within the first 2 miles). I haven't had any sub-freezing days yet though. Also, because today's temp was in the high-50s today's mileage of 76.0 miles resulted in 53.8 mpg. When the weather is colder I will do a two-day test of the same route at similar temps and one with the block heater used and one without.
The block heater also consumed just 1.0 kW in 2.5 hrs. Well worth the cost of electricty to heat the car, IMO.
On normal days the temp gauge will not get to normal until 5-7 miles down the Interstate. This morning it was up to temp by 1.5 miles down the road at 35 mph (non-Interstate). There was heat instantly when I started up the car (although on normal days there was heat within the first 2 miles). I haven't had any sub-freezing days yet though. Also, because today's temp was in the high-50s today's mileage of 76.0 miles resulted in 53.8 mpg. When the weather is colder I will do a two-day test of the same route at similar temps and one with the block heater used and one without.
The block heater also consumed just 1.0 kW in 2.5 hrs. Well worth the cost of electricty to heat the car, IMO.
#20
11-10-2006, 12:43 PM
Re: Block Heater results?
Darren, I admire your results and I hope it motivates more people to get a block heater installed.
Now, the only thing missing is a few changes/enhancements to the milleage database so that the use of a block heater can be factored into the milleage reports.
On a related note (for the larger audience):
Because of the temps (14F, and getting lower) my milleage has taken a serious nose dive. I expect to fill-up today and by my calculations my average for this upcoming tank will be in the upper 30's !
Now, just let us imagine what the mileage would be if I did not use a block heater?
As I said... nice job on block heater install.
Cheers;
MSantos
Now, the only thing missing is a few changes/enhancements to the milleage database so that the use of a block heater can be factored into the milleage reports.
On a related note (for the larger audience):
Because of the temps (14F, and getting lower) my milleage has taken a serious nose dive. I expect to fill-up today and by my calculations my average for this upcoming tank will be in the upper 30's !
Now, just let us imagine what the mileage would be if I did not use a block heater?
As I said... nice job on block heater install.
Cheers;
MSantos
