Hello all,
I'm new to the whole electric/hybrid vehicle thing. I have a few questions about a vehicle I'm considering purchasing. I currently drive a 2004 Escalade ESV, love the ride, need the room, but the gas has been a killer lately. four forward gears doesn't help with the already poor city economy of that V8. I was looking at Escalade Hybrids for sale, because I've always thought the GM Hybrid trucks were an interesting idea. I have a friend that worked in the dealership around the time that these trucks were new, and he doesn't have anything bad to say about them. but that was nearly ten years ago. I'm primarily worried about longevity. I see that they're fairly cheap now, anywhere from $12k-23k for the specs that I want. But depreciation like that is rarely ever without reason.

I typically work on all my cars on my own, it saves me time and I know that it'll get done the best that it can be done. I've heard all the time about the early DOD systems and how they wreak all sorts of havoc on the motor. But I've also heard of people with fully functioning DOD systems after 200k miles with the original drivetrain. But there's one thing that I do worry about, the battery. Obviously we all know Lithium Ion batteries don't last forever, but battery tech has progressed so far in recent times, if I were to rebuild the pack, with all brand new cells, would I expect increased life out of it? How often should I expect the battery pack to be out and what are realistic options for rebuilding a pack? GM doesn't give a whole lot of good info about this battery, just a lot of high voltage warnings. I really just want to know everything I can about this, because I don't know anything, besides what I've seen on the internet.

The end goal is to make it through the pending recession. if I buy one at 100-150k miles, and I average 24k miles/year, do you think I could make it last before the batteries die? or are they more time sensitive too?

Any advice is appreciated

 

Run!

 

Run?

I don't know a whole lot about these, I was doing a little bit of research today. And what I've seen is a fairly cheap looking rebuild kit, I see the recharged original batteries on eBay, and I get concerned/confused because they honestly look identical to the battery cells from every other hybrid pack. I've seen this kit that has 20 modules, 14.4v each, and I'm guessing it's made out of 12 1.2v cells. But that seems to be actually worse than the original NiMH, because it's still NiMH but at 288v instead of 300v. Has anyone made a Lithium kit? Or would I be on a solo mission with never ending 3d printing CAD files and LiFePO4 batteries trying to make something work?

 

No. Not Run? RUN!!!!!!!

You'll have to become your own professional mechanic and become a hybrid expert. Truly competent shops don't exist. You'll definitely have to deal with a replacement battery, and you'll likely have to deal with ABS module, trans aux pump and possibly a replacement trans.

Everything you found today on the battery was junk. The only viable battery replacement is a new pack from GM or rebuild with extremely healthy genuine Toyota modules from very low mileage packs. The 20 module 12 cell kit is garbage Chinese "D" cells that won't last. The Honda hybrid market for those cells is drying up, and they're desperate to find a new market for their junk. There is a Lithium option, but it's almost as bad as the Chinese "D" cells due to poor design.

If you want inexpensive, reliable and fuel efficient transportation with a low cost of ownership for its class, you're literally looking at the bottom of the list. If you're cool with dropping another $5-10K on it in the first year of ownership, go for it.

These things destroy their batteries by operating them way outside of spec and by having marginal cooling systems. No Toyota pushes the batteries by more than 23C (23X their capacity). I've personally recorded a GM pulling 32C out of the batteries. They aren't designed for this, but GM had to do it to maintain the performance expectation of a big V-8.

At this stage in their life, these cars really are ****. If you were a family member or a close friend, I would literally be on my knees begging you not to buy a used GM hybrid.

 

I have become fairly familiar with all the TwoMode Hybrid trucks pitfalls. I can tell you that I would not hesitate to purchase a real nice low mileage example if it was CHEAP enough to justify the risk.
I am talking about someone basically giving me one LOL. Even then it would not be used as my only means of transportation.

 

I'm honestly scared away enough already. I'd consider one at a very, very low price. If I could get one with 200k+ miles for under $5k I'd consider it, as a test mule to see if any improvement could be made to the system. not as a daily driver, just as a means of entertainment. I get a big kick out of improving old things, and I've always liked tinkering, especially with electronics. especially when improving while improvising. I find that adds so much more of a challenge and makes it a bit more fun. but if this isn't worth my time to begin with, then I won't bother.

 

Right on man, I would have to get a deal to buy one of these things. I for years (while I was working, recently retired) kept a brand new GMC Denali Ultimate truck in my garage trading every couple of years but I will have to admit that GM did one heck of a job building these Hybrid Tahoe's / Escalades and Yukon's and I still like this old thing even though it is basically a beater ride LOL. If I were to run across a lower mileage nice unit I would jump all over it AT THE RIGHT PRICE. I bought this in 2019 with 193k for $6,600.00
It would easily be worth a lot more than $6,600.00 now even with 263k on it, the current car / truck market can only be described as Crazy or maybe Stupid is a more accurate description Hahah.

 

That's not bad, I honestly love GM trucks, when I was a kid my father would always lease Tahoes, and I have a particular fondness of the GMT 800 platform as a result. I've had two GMT800 Escalades, and I absolutely love them, I had that weird Avalanche based one, the EXT, that was a fun truck because you just take the back glass out and all your passengers are amazed. I'm happy wit my ESV right now, I just redid all the electronic shocks and compressor at 204k, I've got 219k on it now and it's been dead reliable for me, five trips from North Jersey to Cape Fear North Carolina and back, and no major complaints at all. have to do ball joints or something because I've got a killer vibration in the front end, but apart from that, it's never left me stranded. and the best part is that the frame is clean, almost brand new condition, I didn't get so lucky with my EXT, as much as I do miss it. I'm just extremely familiar with GM Trucks, and I'd rather stick with GM. I saw the hybrid as a way to save some money as I start to return to school to finish my degree.

 

Sounds like you have a garage / tools / knowledge and enjoy working on automobiles so a two mode bought cheap enough would for sure be an interesting experiment for you. I did find that it does not take very long to get your fill of the limited resources available and limited parts availability for these to take part of the fun factor out LOL.

 

I'd say the tranny is the biggest worry, since gm doesn't sell them and I'm not sure I trust a shop to rebuild one at this point. but the aux pump and hybrid battery seem to be what causes most people to think the tranny is bad.

I believe 2011 and newer has a better aux pump, there's a plug and play harness to upgrade the older trucks. the aux pump is super easy to take off, I removed mine to make dropping the pan easier. (I did fluid and filters, there's 2. 135k and fluid and filters were spotless) I don't know how hard the adapter harness would be to install.

so here's the thing, all the gm trucks have bad trannys, look up 4l60 or 6l60 I think they call them depending on the year and number of gears, you'll see horrible stories of guys going thru 4 or 5 of them. this tranny is more complicated but I'm pretty sure it's better than a 4L60 lol. but again, who do you trust to rebuild it? it's got 4 fw gears which are probably fine, 2 electric motors I'd guess last a while, my worry is it uses 2 clutch packs as a kinda cvt meaning it slips to keep the engine in a power band its happy at. but again, all the tranny threads I see sound like other issues, doesn't really sound like trannys just wearing out.

the engine is just an ls with a late valve opening cam, it kills low end tq but is more efficient at cruise rpm. I guess the idea being the electric motors would make up for that tq loss. but with that ls comes your standard AFM issues with lifters, they will fail if your last owner didn't change oil like every 3k with the best oil possible lol and even then, it's going to fail at some point, it's just does it happen at 100k or 175k? so you will need to delete it if you don't want to pull the heads at some point for lifters. which sucks because 4cyl works well in theory with the hybrid help. hp tuners can turn off the 4cyl mode without an side effects, so if you catch that soon enough before damage, you're good. there's a few other ways too, but i feel flashing off in ecm is the right way. again, this is any truck/suv from these years. it's not really a hybrid thing, but just something to know. beyond ecm, you can mechanical bypass afm too, I just recently did mine, since my oil pressure sensor died, again common to ever gm vehicle. just buy a oem one when you get a gm and put it on a shelf lol. you can possibly get to it without pulling the intake. but I had the mechanical afm bypass stuff already too, and the intake is actually easier to pull off a hybrid than a standard one since there's no accessories in the way. but basically it's a plug that goes under the oil pressure sensor that blocks any chance of oil getting to the lifters, and then on the under side where the solenoids are you clip the gaskets so there's no change oil can back feed up from the lifter because of wear and activate the collapse that way either. as long as you catch it before any major damage is done, with those mods it should run 300k plus like any standard ls based engine will with normal maintenance. other than the oil pick up o'ring haha, which is another common gm ls problem. that's just luck of the draw.

so then you get to the bad part, the battery. like the guy above said, I think he's correct. it's just not up to the task of this truck and system. it needed to be twice the size or needed to be more like the chevy volt battery to handle what is being asked of it. the oem battery seems to cause small issues randomly 80k and up.. by 150k you think you need a new transmission, or a new truck. it will jerk, stall out get no mileage and over all be a headache. it might even cause real damage to stuff, I don't know. but sadly there doesn't seem to be a fix. the battery from gm is like 4k plus core and shipping and stuff, and then you read it's probably been sitting in a shelf for 10 plus years and even when perfect was only good for 100k ish. aftermarket batteries are all just junk from crashed cars, they run them thru some discharge and charge cycles to help recover them. while it might be good enough for a prius to last another few years that doesn't lean on its battery very hard, ours do. it seems stuff from like green batteries only lasts about 20k before giving issues, but here's the catch, the gm software doesn't actually show its a bad battery till its really really really bad. so without seeing the car shut down with a battery warning, they won't warrant it out. so you're stuck. there's a lithium option, but no real life reviews from normal people and just tons of well written internet engineers telling you why it can't work. again our trucks load the batteries hard, so even if they do work in the prius, there's no proof it will in our trucks. still seems like the best option to me. since I'm not searching oem packs from a low mile prius c from a mild climate, get 2 of those to make one of ours. you know everything else is going to fail, so who really cares if the lithium doesn't last 10 years lol.

now for the upside.. honestly when they run good they are very nice driving super quiet 7 passenger with a 9k tow rating getting 20ish mpg depending on how good your battery is at the time. I know 2 different people with 2000s standard 6.2L and they struggle to get 13mpg real world. so % wise to do get much better than comparable, but is 20mpg really good these days? not really but if you need to be able have a tow rating and the wife sits in the school pick up line basting ac from the same truck, oh and you're a mechanic that enjoys interesting things. it kinda is what it is? I don't know of anything else that fits that bill? I wanted to load the family up and tow the corvette along to the mountains with me. I do know a guy with a 2022 full size turbo 4cyl Chevy truck and he says it tows like a dream, way better than a NA v8 gas, not quite as well as his last f250 diesel did, but close enough and knocks down 17mpg around town on 87. but again the technology jump from 2008 to 2022 is crazy big. that engine in these hybrids with today's much better battery packs, man I'd like to see what that would get. but it would probably be out of my price range anyways.

all that said, it's grown on me. I hope to keep it around. my old 96 2 door tahoe has 325k, lets see how long this hangs around.