Obsessed with the MPG gauge?
#11
08-12-2004, 12:11 PM
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Location: So. California
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Sorry lars-ss
I didn't mean to get unpleasant with those who are driving carefully.
I think it would be informative if we could swap cars.
Of course, that ain't gonna happen.
So I was considering driving "normally" for one tank, or for 1 day maybe.
For me this will be harder to do than dressing up in drag for a day.
It just is not me.
But it may be interesting since I am getting some of the best numbers for the HCH.
I didn't mean to get unpleasant with those who are driving carefully.
I think it would be informative if we could swap cars.
Of course, that ain't gonna happen.
So I was considering driving "normally" for one tank, or for 1 day maybe.
For me this will be harder to do than dressing up in drag for a day.
It just is not me.
But it may be interesting since I am getting some of the best numbers for the HCH.
#12
08-12-2004, 12:18 PM
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I was not offended or bothered AT ALL - I'm just fairly new to this Hybrid world and I too am just trying to understand everything that goes along with this type of car.
Would I LOVE to get 60+ MPG? Of course I would. But I see no way unless my commute changed to something that involved long, uninterrupted highway drives.
Anyone getting in the high 50s in a combination of hwy and city driving - that's just incredible to me, seeing that I have not seen higher than 47.9 on my trip computer at any point in the first month of owning the car.
I guess my goal is to just find out if there is anything I can do to extend my MPG, and to confirm that all these people getting low MPG do not have problems with their cars. I am still not convinced that the cars getting lower MPG might have something wrong with either the software or the hardware in the car's computer. I work in the computer industry, so I have seen the WEIRD things that S/W and H/W glitches can do.
Laterz........
Would I LOVE to get 60+ MPG? Of course I would. But I see no way unless my commute changed to something that involved long, uninterrupted highway drives.
Anyone getting in the high 50s in a combination of hwy and city driving - that's just incredible to me, seeing that I have not seen higher than 47.9 on my trip computer at any point in the first month of owning the car.
I guess my goal is to just find out if there is anything I can do to extend my MPG, and to confirm that all these people getting low MPG do not have problems with their cars. I am still not convinced that the cars getting lower MPG might have something wrong with either the software or the hardware in the car's computer. I work in the computer industry, so I have seen the WEIRD things that S/W and H/W glitches can do.
Laterz........
#13
08-12-2004, 12:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
lars-ss,
Please let me include that environment will dictate to some degree driving style. In my case I leave for work at 4:30PM, heading into the city while the bulk of traffic is going out, which makes a nice ride and convienient for good MPG.
The same when I leave work to nearly abandoned freeways at 2:00AM.
The best reference I can have to driving normally is locking the cruise control in at 62MPG on the freeway, a good average speed. I drive alot of medium and some large hills along the way and with the car set to "Normal" mode I'll end up with one or two MPG's below EPA, about 45.
If I had a morning & afternoon rush hour commute...it would be more difficult to reach my current numbers. Stevo has likely seen Atlanta Jams.....Geeze they're bad, likely similar to what Wayne sees in Chicago.
I was wondering what other HCH drivers who are getting low results would get if they too locked in cruise control at about 60MPH for at least 20 miles?
I think cruise control is about the best "Standard" variant in a test we could have.
Thoughts?
Please let me include that environment will dictate to some degree driving style. In my case I leave for work at 4:30PM, heading into the city while the bulk of traffic is going out, which makes a nice ride and convienient for good MPG.
The same when I leave work to nearly abandoned freeways at 2:00AM.
The best reference I can have to driving normally is locking the cruise control in at 62MPG on the freeway, a good average speed. I drive alot of medium and some large hills along the way and with the car set to "Normal" mode I'll end up with one or two MPG's below EPA, about 45.
If I had a morning & afternoon rush hour commute...it would be more difficult to reach my current numbers. Stevo has likely seen Atlanta Jams.....Geeze they're bad, likely similar to what Wayne sees in Chicago.
I was wondering what other HCH drivers who are getting low results would get if they too locked in cruise control at about 60MPH for at least 20 miles?
I think cruise control is about the best "Standard" variant in a test we could have.
Thoughts?
#14
08-12-2004, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: So. California
Posts: 1,120
Good idea
60 MPH cruise control for 20 miles (or minutes) on flat terrain, no air conditioner or open windows, one person in car.
Warm up car fist by driving at least 15 minutes.
Zero trip meter AFTER reaching 60 MPH.
Standardized test.
Good idea.
60 MPH cruise control for 20 miles (or minutes) on flat terrain, no air conditioner or open windows, one person in car.
Warm up car fist by driving at least 15 minutes.
Zero trip meter AFTER reaching 60 MPH.
Standardized test.
Good idea.
#15
08-12-2004, 12:32 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 43
If driving like a "normal person" means flooring the accelerator and then slamming on the brakes just so you can get to the next redlight faster, then you aren't going to get EPA mileage in ANY car whether it's a hybrid or not.
I've found that my driving style has changed since getting my hybrid and I'm actually less stressed. I try to drive at a decent pace -- not holding up traffic but also not racing to the next redlight. I usually keep it around 40-45 MPH and I'm getting 47+ MPG in stop and go traffic.
I've found that my driving style has changed since getting my hybrid and I'm actually less stressed. I try to drive at a decent pace -- not holding up traffic but also not racing to the next redlight. I usually keep it around 40-45 MPH and I'm getting 47+ MPG in stop and go traffic.
#16
08-12-2004, 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by sirlan@Aug 12th 2004 @ 1:32 PM
If driving like a "normal person" means flooring the accelerator and then slamming on the brakes just so you can get to the next redlight faster, then you aren't going to get EPA mileage in ANY car whether it's a hybrid or not. I've found that my driving style has changed since getting my hybrid and I'm actually less stressed. I try to drive at a decent pace -- not holding up traffic but also not racing to the next redlight. I usually keep it around 40-45 MPH and I'm getting 47+ MPG in stop and go traffic.
If driving like a "normal person" means flooring the accelerator and then slamming on the brakes just so you can get to the next redlight faster, then you aren't going to get EPA mileage in ANY car whether it's a hybrid or not. I've found that my driving style has changed since getting my hybrid and I'm actually less stressed. I try to drive at a decent pace -- not holding up traffic but also not racing to the next redlight. I usually keep it around 40-45 MPH and I'm getting 47+ MPG in stop and go traffic.
Ignoring the fact that your dash has a "real time MPG meter" and a trip computer that constantly adjusts the trip MPG, and just D R I V I N G the car like you did for the xxxx number of cars you owned before you bought a Hybrid. Nothing heavy-footed per se, just driving from point A to point B without concerning yourself with any "hybrid driving tricks."
My opinion (re-iterated again) is that NO you cannot get EPA MPG if you drive a Hybrid just like you drive any other car.
( But then that would take the FUN away, no? )
Laterz...........
#17
08-12-2004, 03:43 PM
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Location: Gainesville, GA
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lars-ss,
note also that you cannot get EPA MPG if you drive a normal car like any other car....it just doesnt happen. The big thing is, w/ hybrids, you can SEE w/o any calculations how you are doing...thats why people are getting mad about it.
Steve,
Yes, i've seen it some...i dread the four years i'll be at Tech, bicycle baby! Actually, Gainesville is getting worse and worse, whats a 5 min drive to school at normal times, is a 20-30 min. drive during trafic...its CRAZY!
Cheers,
Steven
note also that you cannot get EPA MPG if you drive a normal car like any other car....it just doesnt happen. The big thing is, w/ hybrids, you can SEE w/o any calculations how you are doing...thats why people are getting mad about it.
Steve,
Yes, i've seen it some...i dread the four years i'll be at Tech, bicycle baby! Actually, Gainesville is getting worse and worse, whats a 5 min drive to school at normal times, is a 20-30 min. drive during trafic...its CRAZY!
Cheers,
Steven
#18
08-12-2004, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,430
Originally posted by Stevo12886@Aug 12th 2004 @ 4:43 PM
lars-ss, note also that you cannot get EPA MPG if you drive a normal car like any other car....it just doesnt happen. The big thing is, w/ hybrids, you can SEE w/o any calculations how you are doing...thats why people are getting mad about it.
lars-ss, note also that you cannot get EPA MPG if you drive a normal car like any other car....it just doesnt happen. The big thing is, w/ hybrids, you can SEE w/o any calculations how you are doing...thats why people are getting mad about it.
1-800-EPA-SUX!
Laterz........
P.S. I'm just happy I *DO* have a car which provides me USABLE MPG data and allows me to adjust my driving habits and get instantly rewarded !!!
#19
08-12-2004, 08:08 PM
Super Moderator & Contributor ($)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,672
My car is rated at 18/27 mpg. The worst tank I ever got the gauge showed 24 which translates to about 22.5 (edit 21.5) cause the display does not read exactly right. I've averaged around 27 (edit 26)for the life of the car. The display currently shows 30.1mpg which is really around 28.5 (edit 27.5). Mileage has been good this tank because it has been cool (no air) , dry, and I've not make any in town side trips.
The normal run to work for me is 18 miles of combination driving but the thing that saves my bacon is a second shift job like Hot-Dude. Light traffic coming into work and none going home. You never run late going home so the trip home is always in phyco gas mileage mode. The trip to work has more traffic and speed is more of an issue.
Edit/Update:
The gauge is evidently off by more than I thought. The gauge showed 30.1mpg but 333.3 miles divided by 12.178 gallons is only 27.4 mpg.
Killing the car on long downhills is either working great or screwing up the gauge even more cause it is showing 34 mpg so far for this tank. Allowing for the 2.5 mpg correction factor that would make for about 31.5 mpg actual if true.
The normal run to work for me is 18 miles of combination driving but the thing that saves my bacon is a second shift job like Hot-Dude. Light traffic coming into work and none going home. You never run late going home so the trip home is always in phyco gas mileage mode. The trip to work has more traffic and speed is more of an issue.
Edit/Update:
The gauge is evidently off by more than I thought. The gauge showed 30.1mpg but 333.3 miles divided by 12.178 gallons is only 27.4 mpg.
Killing the car on long downhills is either working great or screwing up the gauge even more cause it is showing 34 mpg so far for this tank. Allowing for the 2.5 mpg correction factor that would make for about 31.5 mpg actual if true.
#20
08-12-2004, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 2,567
Hi All:
___After learning how to drive for fuel economy, I use what others (non-Hybrid drivers) might consider “normal driving” to extend my own fuel economy in whatever car I am in.
___Here are just 2 examples:
___You are on a 4 lane road sitting dead at a light with a BMW 5 series or Ford Mustang convertible in the next lane over doing the same. The next light up ahead is relatively fast one changing with cars tripping it rather then off any type of timing apparently. What do you do? You know the car next to you is going to tare off from the light like a bat out of hell so let him or her. He or she will arrive to trip the light ahead while hard on the binders to stop. The light now changes to green for him just as you are coming along side at speed. No deceleration, no rapid acceleration, nothing but great fuel economy. There are variations and sometimes, you may actually have to accelerate harder then expected to beat a stale green light up ahead if the faster cars arrived a bit too early and you are not quite up to speed. The fast 35 - 45 mph acceleration is painful but it is less painful then the 0 to 45 you will be doing if you do not catch it after the fact.
___There is an 18-wheeler in the right lane and a Pontiac Grand Am in the left lane pacing one another for no apparent reason and you are maybe 15 car lengths behind in the right lane heading into a red light 1/3 of a mile ahead. Not only are you coasting this entire 1/3 of a mile, you are estimating the light timing so that if it turns green (I will assume it was a fresh red) and you still have any momentum, you might consider changing lanes to tuck in behind the Grand Am. If you are going to stop, you definitely want to be behind the 18-wheeler because he will accelerate much slower then the Grand Am from the light after it changes green again. You should take advantage of his slow acceleration from this light or the Grand Am clearing the path so to speak depending on the lights outcome to extend your own fuel economy.
___This is beyond game gauge type decision making and although it might seem trivial, the fuel savings continually show up tank after tank after tank. I use the same calculations in the Corolla as I do in the Insight with great results and she (the Corolla) has no game gauge.
___As mentioned in a few other places, if you are stuck in a midtown Manhattan grid lock, there is nothing you can do to beat EPA estimates other then accelerating slowly from each and every stop to receive better then the guy next to you. Fortunately for most of us, we have some leeway as to when we leave in the morning/afternoon/night (I am an 04:45 AM person for 3 of my 6 weeks rotation) so I don’t see that much traffic in the Chicago area during the morning rush. In the afternoon however, I sometimes get caught in some of the nastiest SOB’s you can imagine. In both cases, I am doing my best to think my way past the next few obstacle(s). This might include a string of 18-wheelers in the right and center lanes with gaps between one or two to take advantage of the next full stop behind the one doing the best anticipating, an off ramp with an on ramp on the same stretch of road to bypass a string of stopped automobiles, a 1 mile long exit lane that continues to run at 25 mph when the left 3 lanes are running at best a rubber banding wave pattern, or timing the next 2 or 3 lights up ahead when driving locally so as to keep your current fuel economy up or increase it no matter how many more miles I have left to drive. All it takes is to pay attention to the traffic around you and you will get into the habit of taking advantage of whatever it offers up.
___As for the general public not knowing what their automobiles w/out game gauges are capable of and or not driving like some of us here do, this is not anyone’s fault as advanced fuel economy driving techniques are not taught in High School drivers Ed. With a game gauge to teach how differing amounts of accelerations, decelerations, and hill climbing effect fuel economy, it is as clear as can be but this is not the only teacher. By making educated guesses as to the actions of the drivers, traffic, and obstacles around you, you will be rewarded more then 50% of the time simply because most of those around you have a similar driving style that can be taken advantage of. The type of automobiles being driven around you might make a difference as well given the above examples.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___After learning how to drive for fuel economy, I use what others (non-Hybrid drivers) might consider “normal driving” to extend my own fuel economy in whatever car I am in.
___Here are just 2 examples:
___You are on a 4 lane road sitting dead at a light with a BMW 5 series or Ford Mustang convertible in the next lane over doing the same. The next light up ahead is relatively fast one changing with cars tripping it rather then off any type of timing apparently. What do you do? You know the car next to you is going to tare off from the light like a bat out of hell so let him or her. He or she will arrive to trip the light ahead while hard on the binders to stop. The light now changes to green for him just as you are coming along side at speed. No deceleration, no rapid acceleration, nothing but great fuel economy. There are variations and sometimes, you may actually have to accelerate harder then expected to beat a stale green light up ahead if the faster cars arrived a bit too early and you are not quite up to speed. The fast 35 - 45 mph acceleration is painful but it is less painful then the 0 to 45 you will be doing if you do not catch it after the fact.
___There is an 18-wheeler in the right lane and a Pontiac Grand Am in the left lane pacing one another for no apparent reason and you are maybe 15 car lengths behind in the right lane heading into a red light 1/3 of a mile ahead. Not only are you coasting this entire 1/3 of a mile, you are estimating the light timing so that if it turns green (I will assume it was a fresh red) and you still have any momentum, you might consider changing lanes to tuck in behind the Grand Am. If you are going to stop, you definitely want to be behind the 18-wheeler because he will accelerate much slower then the Grand Am from the light after it changes green again. You should take advantage of his slow acceleration from this light or the Grand Am clearing the path so to speak depending on the lights outcome to extend your own fuel economy.
___This is beyond game gauge type decision making and although it might seem trivial, the fuel savings continually show up tank after tank after tank. I use the same calculations in the Corolla as I do in the Insight with great results and she (the Corolla) has no game gauge.
___As mentioned in a few other places, if you are stuck in a midtown Manhattan grid lock, there is nothing you can do to beat EPA estimates other then accelerating slowly from each and every stop to receive better then the guy next to you. Fortunately for most of us, we have some leeway as to when we leave in the morning/afternoon/night (I am an 04:45 AM person for 3 of my 6 weeks rotation) so I don’t see that much traffic in the Chicago area during the morning rush. In the afternoon however, I sometimes get caught in some of the nastiest SOB’s you can imagine. In both cases, I am doing my best to think my way past the next few obstacle(s). This might include a string of 18-wheelers in the right and center lanes with gaps between one or two to take advantage of the next full stop behind the one doing the best anticipating, an off ramp with an on ramp on the same stretch of road to bypass a string of stopped automobiles, a 1 mile long exit lane that continues to run at 25 mph when the left 3 lanes are running at best a rubber banding wave pattern, or timing the next 2 or 3 lights up ahead when driving locally so as to keep your current fuel economy up or increase it no matter how many more miles I have left to drive. All it takes is to pay attention to the traffic around you and you will get into the habit of taking advantage of whatever it offers up.
___As for the general public not knowing what their automobiles w/out game gauges are capable of and or not driving like some of us here do, this is not anyone’s fault as advanced fuel economy driving techniques are not taught in High School drivers Ed. With a game gauge to teach how differing amounts of accelerations, decelerations, and hill climbing effect fuel economy, it is as clear as can be but this is not the only teacher. By making educated guesses as to the actions of the drivers, traffic, and obstacles around you, you will be rewarded more then 50% of the time simply because most of those around you have a similar driving style that can be taken advantage of. The type of automobiles being driven around you might make a difference as well given the above examples.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
