OK, let's just agree that only 20% of the population is "rural" (with perhaps another 10% on the fringe of suburbia, working close-by farms). Should 20-30% of the population be singled out and punished with vehicle-use taxes? Especially when they use their "monster trucks" to put food on everyone else's table, and most likely cannot afford the luxury of a second vehicle?

That sounds like a sure-fire way to get another Republican president...lol

 

Isn't the farms getting fewer into corporate huge operations?

Anyway, the trends clearly indicate light trucks being underutilized as commuter vehicles since 1980.

It was someone else in this thread suggesting a gas-guzzeler tax - wasn't it? An easy solution to financial burden - proportionally reducing income taxes to match the price at the pump. My focus is to point out Americans have supersized their meals and vehicles in recent years and it hurts on both fronts.

 

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA1152515.PDF

The BIG 6 in 2006

------------------GM----------Ford-------Toyota---------DCX--------Nissan-----Honda
Cars --------1,580,000-----1,020,000---1,271,000-----773,000------469,000-----706,000
Luxury cars----142,000--------88,000-----183,000-----178,000-------87,000-----137,000
Trucks-------2,342,470-----1,793,000---1,064,368---1,535,000------465,000-----665,000
-----------------38% -----------35% ---------50%---------36%----------45%--------47%

Note that Detroit is under 40% of cars to light trucks and luxury cars, while Japanese automakers are 45% or better. Ford is having their worst year in history - DCX is losing money - GM is just starting to turnaround. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda make record profits - fuel efficient cars. Toyota will probably get truck-heavy in a few years, but unlike Detroit they have a balanced line. Honda's truck ratio is overstated since luxury cars are lumped with light trucks.

 

Hell yes !!

Even a "not too smart" government would give tax abatements to all those who can prove they need anything like a "monster truck" for a business. This is NOT an unreasonable solution. It is in fact, a reality for the rest of the world but us, of course. These people are not the problem.

The problem is all other folks (especially urban and suburban residents) who choose an SUV or pickup truck as a commuter (primary vehicle) should bear the social and ecological brunt of the choice they made. The best way to help offset the impact this folks cause it to saddle them with significant vehicle-use taxes !!

Oh, so we need to haul a few things now and then. Rent, Please !! Many rental companies will make it as easy as possible to get you on one of their units. Many will even pickup and drop off. It is cheaper, and represents an optimal use of such vehicles.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Just morbid curiosity talking here: Where do minivans fit in (cars? trucks?). The reason I ask is that I can't imagine families with more that one child (or soccer moms/cub scout dads) giving up their minivans or SUVs. What about salesmen/representatives who require 6 or 7 passenger vehicles in their work? Let's add another 10% (just for fun). Now we're talking about penalizing 30-40% of the populace (conservatively).

And (msantos), while some other "not too smart" government might be bright enough to write abatements into a complex tax law, I doubt if ours would get it right. Something like this would never fly before the taxpayers.

I'm racking my brain, but I can't think of a fair way to single out "monster truck" people who should not be driving them. According to Delta Flyer's table, it should be about half of the remaining 60-70% which are unaccounted for (30-35% of total drivers). If we start singling out a small segment of the population for a new tax (ie: Tax The Rich!), someone is going to cry FOUL!

I'm starting to see this process as somewhat "Darwinian." I guess we can all take some consolation that we're at the top of the food chain...LOL!

 

I've done my fair share of the research, so I'll leave it to others to determine where minivans fit in the mix, although it's pretty reasonable to count them with the trucks. Minivans are more efficient people haulers than SUVs since they are typically 2WD, lower to the ground, not geared for heavy payloads, have a unibody construction.

It's not very common I see a packed vehicle on my commutes around Dallas - it's usually 1-2 people.

Need to repeat - I did not ever advocate "Tax the Rich" (a lot more). I have suggested taxing the same overall, but put more emphasis on fuel prices to encourage conservation. As it is, light trucks may be under taxed as they wear out public roads and bridges faster, not to mention the SUV abuse of the business vehicle tax break, that far exceeds any hybrid credits.

Couple of years ago, www.dallasnews.com had an article of a woman from Nebraska being told by her dates in the Plano area to get rid of her "poor" Honda Accord and get something like a Suburban. Plano and surrounding North of Dallas communities have among the highest bankruptacies because so many are borrowing to "Keep up with the Jones". Clergy in the area concurred in the article. I see a lot more of that than legitimate hardships.

Gas rationing during World War II was a real hardship. If our grandparents acted like people today, we would have lost that war. Instead, society lived on the rations allocated and greately frowned on the few that tried to get more than their share. I guess that's why they have been called "The Greatest Generation".

I can't help but to wonder why Kraken is making the positions he makes, yet says he drives a 2006 Prius and hardly, if ever discusses his driving experiences with it. Most Prius drivers I've known don't shy away from discussing their Prius.

 

I think you're right on the minivans (rated as trucks for statistical purposes). Unfortunately, that makes the numbers look considerably worse than just considering trucks alone.

Sorry about the "tax the rich" statement (it was misunderstood). I just offered it as an example of minority taxation (my meaning would have been just as clear had I omitted it).

The Plano story was interesting, but not very substantive. Ditto World War Two gas rationing (I secretly WISH for shortages...we'd all be at the bar right now, toasting the dramatic shift to hybrids...lol).

For the paragraph you just added (glad I just caught that!), perhaps an admission of a personal character flaw is in order. I was on the Debate Team in high school (we went to Nationals & won!). If I encounter a one-sided discussion, I just can't help myself. Sometimes, I'm the Devil's Advocate, personified. When you get to know me a little better, you'll find that I sometimes take positions even I don't beleive in, just to keep things moving and interesting (don't hesitate to call me on it, I'll confess!).

Finally, I have been talking about my experiences with my Prius, on a number of other threads (but thanks for asking!)

 

I believe the title of the www.dallasnews.com story was "Losing it All" - dated August 2005.

 

That was ME - as well as another on some other thread. I'm not convinced that it is a great way to go either, but my suggestions were that we tackle this problem from many angles. Make it more difficult on the abusers, I say, with compassion to the truly poor. Waiting for this problem to resolve itself - we've been doing that for 30+ years. How's it working so far?

For the record (and somewhat shocking to me), I agree 100% with everything Delta Flyer has said over his last number of posts on this thread.
Most people who own trucks, severly underuse them by making them (and SUVs) be commuter cars. I've been guilty as well. Even farmers use them for riding into town, general travel, and date-night (and, yes, I've been around farms - actually lived on one for several years). For most of the farmers I've known, they DO have other vehicles - large-*** SUVs or large-sized cars. It's not typically that they cannot afford another vehicle, they just choose large vehicles because they are comfortable with them and gas has almost always been cheap (relatively speaking). Most people just do not think of the collective consequences of choosing poor MPG vehicles. We need a wake-up call.

 

Then lean towards a Highlander Hybrid. Same as the Escape, but the engine stays off when you are at a light...and has more time 'in stealth mode' (no ICE), then the Ford Escape Hybrid. My brother has one, and tells me that his A/C, when it's on, forces the ICE to always run; not the same with the Highlander.

Unless they (Ford) have changed that...