I started this thread because I didn't want to go too off topic (steal) from the original thread I was posting on (tire pressure) in the HCH forum

I personally don't see any ill effects of running tire max as opposed to manufacturers suggested pressure. They set a pressure that will work for the AVERAGE consumer. They weigh out FE with ride comfort. Most people would rather have a cushy ride than ultimate mpg, even in a hybrid. Just check out reviews on the Insight. Anyone who has driven a (real) sports car, would find the Insight's suspension mild, even with overinflated tires. But the general consumer finds that it beats them up. I personally can't stand the 'float' and lack of control that a soft suspension and sidewalls give you. I love to feel connected with my car, not like I am on a bus ride.

Another point of FE vs comfort issue that has come up on a thread is the intake and exhaust system. They needed to make it quiet at the expense of a few MPG. A large portion of the buyers wouldn't pay 25k for a car that wasn't silent. I think with the auto stop, they made sure it was quieter because you would notice it even more than in a normal car. I may do those mods in the future once I can contact the dealer and find out if it will have any affect on the warranty or after it expires. I would check out a high-flow cat as well if it wouldn't reduce emissions, reduce life of car, or lower torque from less backpressure.

I think once enough of these cars (hybrids) are sold, then the mentality of the public of squeezing every last bit of hp and of torque, will switch to maximizing efficiency and squeezing every last tenth of a mpg. There will be a lot of mods and upgrades for cars in general that will be beneficial to the consumer and the enviroment. The whole thought of - is it worth the price of a product for such a little gain? ... usually relating to the extra cost of the Hybrid in general ... Well, how many people who pay $1000 for a exhaust and intake and realistically get 5-10hp in high rpms at the cost of low end power (i think most lose much more low end than they gain back) complain about it or need, use, feel that much of a difference? They may get a tenth or two faster on a 1/4 mile. So that same $1000 might get you a couple MPG greater FE or more, sounds like more benefit per dollar in my eyes (and you may get a little more power too as an added benefit). Those who spend over 10k on an engine and turbo setup (or most turbos alone are 5k+) for a street car, where you would never see the full performance out of it (legally).

The market isn't there yet, those who are here at GreenHybrid are the ones who are on the ground level, the pioneers, if you like, at how society will turn and in creating the market for a completely new line of products and a new way of thinking. I feel within a decade or two, the performance auto companies will only have racing as a market, and will have to find another venue to remain open.

I know not all things are for everyone. I would sacrifice a few mpg to add extra sound dampening, insulation, and a amp/subwoofer, but I can make that up in other areas. I want to be comfortable and enjoy my investment as well. Otherwise, I would have bought a Hyundai Accent for half the price that gets over 30 mpg combined. I want to be spoiled in my own way while still acheived over EPA and double what the average driver gets no matter what they are in, including Hybrids.

Just my 2 cents

 

I have overinflated my HCH tires to the max. I bought a hybrid to save gas, the Civic is not necessarily a car I find comfortable to begin with.

Please keep us posted on mods.

 

I would love to see what other have gained in FE by overinflating their tires. I showed zero difference in my month to month test. First month (last Aug) ran at +5 over recommended (I got 51mpg ave. over the entire month). Second month (last Sep) ran at 51 psi (max), and surprise got the same average. I now run at around 46psi for the gains that I noticed in the rain and cornering... along with braking (in both dry and wet).


As for the part on modding a hybrid, if it's for better FE... sure it makes sense. As for the crowd that will mod a hybrid at the expense of FE, I just don't get it. I see post here where the person doesn't like the OEM wheels and then replaces them for a "better looking" wheel at the expense of FE. At which point I must say, why bother getting a hybrid. You are now getting the same FE had you purchased the non-hybrid version of the car.

 

I agree with the wheel mod ... why bother, at least they are rims on the Hybrids ... and I don't think they look that bad, could they look better, maybe but they are shiny . I think someone posted they were 14.6 lbs when they switched rims ... I actually like the 06 rims, I would go for them personally if I ever changed these.

I looked on Tirerack.com and found some rims that fit the 05 HCH and are lighter than stock. I used Tirerack because it was easy not because I have any affiliation with them, although I do like thier site and it has some good info and a large customer rating database for tires.

14" - 4 out of 5 had a weight on the rim page, from 14.5 to 9.3 lbs each

15" - 27 rims available, at least 7 had a weight same or lower with out going to the rim page (too lazy to check out the other 20) ... same range of near stock to 9.3

16" - 42 availible, at least 4 ... the lowest was 12.0

17" - 78 availible, at least 5 ... the lowest was 12.8

18" - 54? available (i forgot) lowest was 15.9 lbs.

so if I take the data from another thread and assume that it is correct, then you double the weight for rotational mass then multiply it by the four wheels. difference is 14.6 - 9.3 = 5.3 x 2 = 10.6 x 4 = 42.4. I think this can be slightly greater if you don't go to much wider tires, since you should lose weight with less sidewall.

How much does rim aerodynamics play? I guess that would depend if you do more city or highway driving. How heavy does the rim and tire need to be for maintaining glides and regenerative braking? Or will the glide sustain longer because they are lighter and you could hold lean burn at a lower pedal pressure from less effort to keep the wheels rolling under load. Will the benefit of improved acceleration be greater than any losses? 10 ... even 5 lbs lighter flywheel can make a huge difference. The theory of 100lbs = 1mpg ... then 25 lbs = 0.25 mpg for raw weight plus benifits of the lowered rotational mass in itself. Of course this all in theory and milking those tenths here and there where possible. And while in theory, doesn't lower profile tires have a higher cold max pressure so in essence you could also raise it higher and get that extra 1 or 2 mpg. I wish I had the money to test it out maybe someone else can

 

I have a small sample database but I have overinflated (52/50) for 4 tanks. No noticeable improvement for the 1st 3 tanks but it has been very warm in the Dallas area for a week and a half. The last tank I got 61.5 MPG. That was ~ 400 miles split about 50-50 between highway at 65 mph with a tailwind and city driving. Based on this my guess is it will drop back down until it warms up in the spring.

 

I run 44psi front and 42psi rear in the Civic. With the same in the Accord. The psi helps the Civic some. Its just a flat out crappy coaster IMO. The Accord Coast like a dream. With the psi where its at now I cant imagine another car that coast like it does. Tires wear even, road noise goes down, with a tad firmer ride in both. Even with tire pressures up the wife cant get mpg out of it. She shouldnt have a lic IMO. Im suprised she hasnt wrecked it yet.

As for mods. The 5AT in the Accord ruins the car IMO. Just guts it right out. I could rip the intior out put light wheels on it carbon fiber hood and trunk lid and she still couldnt get better than 30 mpg out of it.

The Civic on the other hand would be a car worth modding. If the intake and exhaust mods helped any with torgue it would be great! Cause thats what the car needs. GRUNT! Lighter wheels would be nice. But they are big $$$

Honda built the Hybrid for all out mpg. While they gave some life to the EX's. And turned Si loose. I cant help but get alittle pissed when I open the hood of my EX and see the intergrated exhaust manifold into the head. I honestly beleive if they had built the 1.8 with no vtec it would do as good as the hybrid. IE a HX. Which IMO is why there isnt a HX. the one place i know I could have got some grunt out of my EX they saw fit to take away with the head exhaust manifold design.

So the only car Honda saw fit to build that would mod out good was the Si.

Ive seen where folks mod hybrids,, but its all ICE mods. The cool thing to mod would be the IMA. Bigger electric motor, better batterys, better software. Ive seen wheel mods on hybrids and just dont understand that. Ive yet to see one with any of the high dollar ulltra light wheels made for racing that would be good wheels for looks and mpg. Im waiting to see my 1st winged and fart canned hybrid.

 

congratulations!!!


... I hope to never see a winged and coffee can equipped hybrid!!! The little spoiler they come with is nice though.

I have been wodering the same thing with the batteries and motor. I wonder how hard it would be to upgrade. If anything ever went wrong with the ones in the car ... I would rather them upgrade to the current level instead of throw in the older one, but I guess with the 03-05 CVT, it is the transmission that limits the (electric) motor. But that would definately give it more torque for these models.

I have been keeping it in the back of my head, but I do want to buy an Insight 5-spd, and try to put the new IMA in it. I think that car would FLY with just that little bit more hp and the extra torque. I also wonder if you could make your own upgrade to the battery system. I know you can buy capacitors for stereo systems. I don't know if that would be compatible, or help any. I would assume so, if you made a group of them big enough. How many total farads would be necessary to assist and help prolong battery life.

I don't like most aftermarket rims. I still say if I put rims on mine it will be from the 06, I really like those, even if I had a normal Civic. As soon as I can get the spare money, I think I will ask some of those that have changed thier rims if they still have them. If not, I will look into finding them somewhere online ... I would trade out my (blown motor) RX-7 with 15" Enkeis for a set of those rims right now without any hesitation. Guess I will try eBay hehe.

 

The HX as well as the VX before it had VTEC. In fact, they claimed you can't really do the lean-burn without it because you need the very high swirl of the single intake valve mode in learn-burn mode to avoid detonation. Speaking as an HX owner though, I have serious doubts that the HX can come anywhere near the hybrid in city driving. Maybe real close on the highway, especially at higher speeds where the FE really drops off for the hybrids, but there's just some physical limitations to a larger ICE that doesn't do autostop.

As for the cylinder head design, the HX was actually the first Civic to adopt that, back in 1996. The header wasn't totally built into the head the way it is now, but the HX was different from all the other Civics in that it had a special super short exhaust runner exhaust manifold that went directly into the catalyst, immidiately next to the exhuast ports on the cylinder head. Most everyone started doing it that way in the years that followed, but that was definitely something you saw very early on in the HX. It's pretty much mandatory these days if you want to pass the latest emissions regs.