Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
#21
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Not exactly true, the real reason you are seeing a huge increase in FlexFuel vehicles has more to do with the contrived way that the EPA does the mileage ratings for CAFE purposes. A flexFuel vehicle gets an artificailly higher MPG rating even if the vehicle will never be run on Ethanol. Once this contrived way of rating a flexfuel vehicle disappears, the number of FlexFuel vehicles being developed will diminish. That is fine by me, because selling a Tahoe that is FlexFuel does noting to lessen our usage of foregin oil as there is no way a soccer mom will look for E85 and buy it when it costs more than regular unleaded and gets substancially worse economy.
In instances where FlexFuel costs more than gasoline, using FlexFuel is not an economically wise option. It does, however make a wonderful hedge in the event that the price of gasoline reaches the $3 plus range again. Since E85 is only 15% gasoline, it should not see as large a climb in prices. Yesterday I filled my Tahoe with E85 at $2.03. Unleaded at the same station is $2.19. Still not the best economic decision. If gas prices climb to $3.00 for gas and $2.35 for E85, I'll be ahead. Since the buyer / lessee pays $0 for the FlexFuel option, they have absolutely NOTHING to lose by buying / leasing a FlexFuel vehicle and never using E85, but if the price of gas goes up, they have a built in, no cost hedge using a fuel that is renewable. Works for me.
Peace,
Martin
Last edited by martinjlm; 12-14-2006 at 09:03 AM.
#22
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
I ca see your points, and they sound great, but from what I have seen when the price of gas goes up E85 goes up and equal amount. This might be due to market factors such as supply and demand or the fact that E85 is still highly dependant on petrolium to produce it in the first place.
I do like E85, if we can produce it using little to no petrolium products. Heck, there are a lot of sugar cane farms that used to be around here in texas and lousiane that don't produce anymore. Those would be ideal to start back up and produce sugar cane for ethanol production.
I do like E85, if we can produce it using little to no petrolium products. Heck, there are a lot of sugar cane farms that used to be around here in texas and lousiane that don't produce anymore. Those would be ideal to start back up and produce sugar cane for ethanol production.
#23
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Also, flexfuel cars were never really marketed to the U.S. it was an afterthought from the american car manufacturers once they realized they got caught with their pants down with the concept of going green (hybrid). The market was for countries like Brazil who use ethanol for their fuel because they have a surplus of sugar. Our manufacturers said, hey, we can get in on this "green" banwagon by going "yellow". And guess what, we have been selling the same car to the domestic market as those that require flexfuel. All we have to do is remind our market that you already own a flexfuel vehicle and will give you this yellow gas cap to remind you.
The public being pretty naive fell for this, hook, line and sinker.
The public being pretty naive fell for this, hook, line and sinker.
#24
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
I ca see your points, and they sound great, but from what I have seen when the price of gas goes up E85 goes up and equal amount. This might be due to market factors such as supply and demand or the fact that E85 is still highly dependant on petrolium to produce it in the first place.
I do like E85, if we can produce it using little to no petrolium products. Heck, there are a lot of sugar cane farms that used to be around here in texas and lousiane that don't produce anymore. Those would be ideal to start back up and produce sugar cane for ethanol production.
I do like E85, if we can produce it using little to no petrolium products. Heck, there are a lot of sugar cane farms that used to be around here in texas and lousiane that don't produce anymore. Those would be ideal to start back up and produce sugar cane for ethanol production.
There has been and continues to be work done on development of fuel grade ethanol from sources other than corn stock. Now that automakers are committed to the idea of E85 as an economically feasible fuel source, I would expect that the development work will be even better supported.
Peace,
Martin
#25
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Hmmm... Let me guess. You filled up at the Meijers right across from the tech center? You should've called me, I would've gone out and watched you fill up!
As I've said before, it's that lack of a price gap that distrurbs me about E85. If it was cheap enough to offput the efficiency loss, I'd be quite for it. (Electricity if my personal favorite as an alternative fuel) As it is now, it's kind of a neat alternative, heck, if the FEH had FFV technology in her, I probably would've filled up there once or twice if for nothing else, than the novelty of it.
#27
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Oddly enough, FlexFuel hybrids are technically feasible. One of the things that stands in the way is that under the California definition of ZEV, PZEV and AT-PZEV, they would not qualify for PZEV or AT-PZEV credits because of the evaporative qualities of ethanol / E85 as compared to gasoline. If somebody cracks that nut you might actually see FlexFuel hybrids.
Peace,
Martin
#28
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Peace,
Martin
#29
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
Flex-fuel won't help at all with CO2 and global warming, unless it is burned in highly efficient (hybrid) cars. Substituting one fuel for another helps only with where future fuel comes from. To solve all relevent problems, you must have vehicles which use less fuel.
Harry
Harry
#30
Re: Flex Fuel Vehicles – The Solution To Our Gas Crisis?
The idea behind burning an alternate fuel... (not a big fan of e85, i think this is the wrong direction) is that the amount of C02 emmited equals to that had the source just decayed naturally.... The problem with fossil fuels is that it's all NET NEW C02.
So it's not a substitution exactly.
So it's not a substitution exactly.