The CO2 proportionality paradox
#1
The CO2 proportionality paradox
Paradox to me, anyway :-)
Would someone *please* correct the mistake in my reasoning below, since it is quite obviously wrong, but I do not know why:
Gas combustion is hydrocarbon oxidation. Using O2 as the oxidizer, the end products are H2O and C02. This suggests that as oxidation increases in efficiency in end-product produced, so does the C02. Yet we *know* that the Prius produces less C02, not more.
Said another way: if it isn't C02 coming out of the Prius tailpipe, what from is the oxidized carbon in ??
I will take kudos up front for posting what may turn out to be the dumbest question ever, but it is annoying me ...
------------
oh, I got it :-)
No matter, I'll leave the question for others that enjoy headaches (CO free, naturally).
Would someone *please* correct the mistake in my reasoning below, since it is quite obviously wrong, but I do not know why:
Gas combustion is hydrocarbon oxidation. Using O2 as the oxidizer, the end products are H2O and C02. This suggests that as oxidation increases in efficiency in end-product produced, so does the C02. Yet we *know* that the Prius produces less C02, not more.
Said another way: if it isn't C02 coming out of the Prius tailpipe, what from is the oxidized carbon in ??
I will take kudos up front for posting what may turn out to be the dumbest question ever, but it is annoying me ...
------------
oh, I got it :-)
No matter, I'll leave the question for others that enjoy headaches (CO free, naturally).
Last edited by EricGo; 03-24-2005 at 03:25 PM.
#2
Hi EricGo:
___I am not sure what you are asking but CO2 figures are based on Fuel consumed no matter if it’s an H2 or an Insight. ~ 19.6 pounds of CO2 are produced per gallon of fuel consumed no matter the SI-ICE vehicle. This does not include the refinement and transportation of said gallon of fuel to your local station which totals out to ~ 28 pounds.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I am not sure what you are asking but CO2 figures are based on Fuel consumed no matter if it’s an H2 or an Insight. ~ 19.6 pounds of CO2 are produced per gallon of fuel consumed no matter the SI-ICE vehicle. This does not include the refinement and transportation of said gallon of fuel to your local station which totals out to ~ 28 pounds.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#3
Hi Wayne.
You are right, of course. I for a moment thought that the engine's efficiency was due to more complete combustion. What is actually happpening is increased conversion of heat to mechanical movement.
I'm afraid I epitomize the danger of knowing a bit of biochemistry, while being an engineering idiot. Hopefully I'll improve along with my MPG.
In the meantime, I have a couple more *really* stupid questions..
You are right, of course. I for a moment thought that the engine's efficiency was due to more complete combustion. What is actually happpening is increased conversion of heat to mechanical movement.
I'm afraid I epitomize the danger of knowing a bit of biochemistry, while being an engineering idiot. Hopefully I'll improve along with my MPG.
In the meantime, I have a couple more *really* stupid questions..
#4
Pounds vs. Gallons
Originally Posted by xcel
Hi EricGo:
___I am not sure what you are asking but CO2 figures are based on Fuel consumed no matter if it’s an H2 or an Insight. ~ 19.6 pounds of CO2 are produced per gallon of fuel consumed no matter the SI-ICE vehicle. This does not include the refinement and transportation of said gallon of fuel to your local station which totals out to ~ 28 pounds.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I am not sure what you are asking but CO2 figures are based on Fuel consumed no matter if it’s an H2 or an Insight. ~ 19.6 pounds of CO2 are produced per gallon of fuel consumed no matter the SI-ICE vehicle. This does not include the refinement and transportation of said gallon of fuel to your local station which totals out to ~ 28 pounds.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
I am confused. Gasoline weighs 5.85 pounds per gallon, so how does one get 19.6 pounds of CO2 after combustion? Or is there an order of magnitude mistake somewhere?
Cheers, Doug
#6
Hi Doug:
___EricGo hit it on the head. Remember the SI-ICE’s stoichiometric fuel-air ratio? 14.7 times the amount of air as fuel through the combustion process is where the 19.6 #’s comes from.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___EricGo hit it on the head. Remember the SI-ICE’s stoichiometric fuel-air ratio? 14.7 times the amount of air as fuel through the combustion process is where the 19.6 #’s comes from.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#7
Re: The CO2 proportionality paradox
Originally Posted by EricGo
Yet we *know* that the Prius produces less C02, not more.
We know no such thing. The Prius produces the same amount of CO2 as any other ~50mpg car.
What varies is the amount of CO, NOx, NMOGs, PMs.
troy
#8
Re: The CO2 proportionality paradox
The context was: less CO2 produced than cars with lesser mpg.
As for CO, Nox, NMOG, and PM -- none are directly related to mpg, but are post-combustion processes. The 25 mpg SULEV Ford Focus is an obvious example that this is so.
As for CO, Nox, NMOG, and PM -- none are directly related to mpg, but are post-combustion processes. The 25 mpg SULEV Ford Focus is an obvious example that this is so.
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